Cheburator

I dunno, I think the 928 does not like a fast entry into a corner either, due to the set up - you have the pendulum effect from the transaxle hanging way out back. The 928 does not like trail braking too - remember Breidscheid I think it just needs to loose a lot of weight, which I have hopefully done...

P.S. The more I drive this damned Z4M Coupe, the more I think that the 928 will have a very tough act to beat...

UKKid35

For me at least, to make a 928 equal to a GT3 could not entail stripping out a 928 so that it's impossible to drive on the road. The GT3 seems to me to be a road car that is very capable on the track, and as such it is still very refined, and does not lack all the comforts you would need to be able to drive it long distances.

UKKid35

That is what I had assumed, but the 997 GT3 driver was able to demostrate that he could control any oversteer without any problems at all (even after putting 2 wheels on the grass).

JEC_31

I've read differing opinions on the comfort level of driving GT3s long distances, which is of course natural - different people have different preferences as well as a ranges of tolerance and endurance.

Conversely though, every single 928 long-distance-comfort report I have read has been glowing.

Does anybody here have a (street legal) 928 that hammers their kidneys, aches their back and butt, numbs their hands/wrists/arms, and wearies their brain with the chore of keeping a darty car pointed straight?

GregBBRD

Don't forget that Mark beats up pretty hard on Cup GT3s, not street GT3s. The major limiting factor in dealing with these cars is the lack of available gearing for a 928. Mark uses 2 or 3 gears, while a good Cup Car uses 5 or 6 gears, around the same course. Makes a big difference! We take this into consideration when we build engines. We have always been able to make more horsepower, but we have never been willing to trade torque for this horsepower. If you have many "active" gears, torque is less important and you can begin to trade torque for horsepower.

In all fairness, Mark can drive a milk truck faster that most people can drive a race car. Equal drivers in a 928 and a Cup Car is going to result in the 928 getting its butt kicked. A 30 year old car better not be able to compete with a new Cup Car.

You guys are also talking about a modified 928 versus a stock GT3, which is really not apples with apples. Let the a 997 Cup GT3 have a few modifications and you will not even be able to know what color it was in a few laps.

Now, if you factor in the cost of each and figure out any formula that equates dollars spent versus lap times, the 928 is going to win every time!

Jim bailey - 928 International

Ah...."Does anybody here have a (street legal) 928 that hammers their kidneys, aches their back and butt, numbs their hands/wrists/arms, and wearies their brain with the chore of keeping a darty car pointed straight?" Yes sure do the old very brown 1980 Which the last event I changed run groups pulled up next to a GT3 ...the driver a former student of mine looked at he exclaimed .. " OH NO ! You're going to kill me, just kill me " ..He got let out on the track two cars behind me and I never saw him again ! Streets of Willow 1.8 mile road course... Too much fun !

mark kibort

A couple of corrections here greg. Some of the worlds best cup car drivers have not been around laguna seca in a time of 1:30.8. I think the top supercup drivers last year were in the 1:33 range, while the SpeedGT motorsport upgraded porsches were in the 1:31-2 range in the race. (hardely a cup car)

next, the close ratio gear boxes of the cup car allow for better effective use of its relatively peaky HP curve. acceleration is directly related to the amount of time spent at near maximized HP. however, with the naturally broad HP curve of the 928 stroker of anderson, it is able to be kept at an average HP of over 450 while a cup car with 385rwhp (new 997GT3) can be kept around its average of 365. we are talking effectivenss of .9 vs .95 for the cup car due to close ratio gears. what the 928 looses in that effectiveness, it more than makes up for in raw brute force HP! after all, we are talking 400hp vs 500hp, but the real tale of the tape is in the advanced design of the cup car , with its size, downforce, suspension tuning and geometry, etc.

I totally agree with you on the comparison not being sane. I was comparing a modifed 928 with a stock GT3 street car. if it had the gutting, modifications that i have with the holbert car, it would be near cup car performance and would smoke me! and, if you pumped up a cup car to where Mark anderson's car is today, you would end up with a GT3RS and it would smoke Mark. so, although the exercise is fun, it doesnt really compare the two fairly.

and your also right on the bang for the buck. look no farther than just my rig. 1:38.9 at laguna seca with a 21 year old 928, with its only engine mod being a set of headers. This is a case where nothing even comes close.

Mk

Jim bailey - 928 International

The GT3 has very nearly the optimum front rear weight bias of 40 - 60 ...50-50 while good that is compared to many front engined cars with a front to rear of 60 - 40 or worse ! So acceration traction and braking ability favor the rear weighted car. In addition , 928s on a diet tend to get nose heavy as weight comes of the *** first and easiest..

sweanders

As much as I love the 928 the only thing that would make it interesting to modify into GT3-speed (in term of lap times) is that it might be less expensive (certainly not cheap).

Problem is then the financial backlash that comes if you decide to sell your hopped up 928 - it will be valued lower and have a narrower customer base than a nice street 928 which can already be a pain to sell. This while a stock GT3 should be comparably easy to unload and since there is no need to modify to be a track suited car no money is lost on upgrades.

Both cars are great, but very different.

slate blue

By SwaybarBasically I have no problem with what you said, I just want to clarify things a little, firstly with the current engine I was only refering to straight line performance, I will need the big engine to actually beat them on the track plus a few more light weight parts. My performance at present is close in straight line terms to the current 997 GT3RS, to keep it as apples to apples as possible I would use the same tyres and no stripped out race car an equivalent car or one slightly more luxurious in fact, there isn't 4 seats in a GT3 RS is there

As per our UK friends comments As for this comment I believe we can compare our cars because as long as you haven't stripped it out like a race car and added a blower well you still have a car that might be sold by Porsche today if they were still making the 928. All that I am doing is adding current technology, I am not turning my apple into an orange however I am giving the car a different direction much like the 928 SE or CS. I am also providing equipment levels Porsche may provide if they were serious with the car like they are with the GT3 and as we know they were never sports car minded when they built the 928 it was a GT car.

Greg

Ispeed

I was fortunate enough to drive a 997GT3 for about 25 minutes. The clutch was twice as heavy and shifting was stiff and stubborn vs the 928. What I do love about the 3 was the super stiff suspension, cool engine noise (for a 6), and responsive feel. What I didn't like was the upright-in-a-chair seating position like any normal daily driver car.
I think for a 928er looking for a more "3" like 928, it is easily do-able with suspension mods, exhaust mods, sport (or GT3) seats, and some bigger/wider wheels.

Black Sea RD

Agreed the 928 would take significant improvements, time and $$$$ to make it keep up with a street GT3 given the GT3's benefit of newer technologies in suspension, aerodynamics, engine management and the balance of the whole package. At the end this 928 could possibly suffer a bit in resale but if done well, maybe not.

I do believe there are 928 enthusiasts out there who would like to devote their efforts to build up a rather stock looking 928 using cues from the GT3s and other Porsches, that could readily keep up with the newer cars at track days. Why? Why not. I see many owners sink a lot of money into their 928s without any real purpose or focus. If their enthusiasm and funds could be channeled to a specific performance envelope, such as keeping up with a GT3, I believe it would be good for them, their cars and 928 owners in general!

Just my thoughts,
Constantine

jon928se

I may not have a real purpose or focus but my wife has. She claims it keeps me safely ensconced in the garage and not out boozing or chasing women.

Daniel Dudley

The fact that we can even entertain this notion is very heartening. As for the cost, I know several 928 owners pushing 400 RWHP for under 20K total cost . Then you have guys like Jim B. who are Kicking A with 200 at the rear, and having a blast for peanuts.

I find the idea of a twin screw S4 to be very appealing. It seems to me that the high overall gearing would be a perfect match for that kind of torque. IMO, this is the golden hour of the 928. Lots of good cars out there, prices are low, and virtually any modification you could wish for has already been engineered and is good to go. For those of you on the 928 fence, I can only reccomend that you do it now. Get that car and make it your dream machine. The stuff may still be out there in a few years, but then again it may not. 928s are getting more and more good press. Ride the wave.

Daniel Dudley

Ha ! my wife even wants me to take her out driving. Who am I to say no ?