supercharger
10-15-2007, 01:15 PM
#31
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Thanks for the comments George!
Brian, I was thinking about the list you found. DR is the manufacturer of the kit we're discussing, but in fact he is purchasing some of those key components from other manufacturers in order to assemble the kit along with the items he is having machined himself. Could it be that DR is sourcing one of the key components (remember, I'm technology challenged) from a company that sells supercharger kits for a large range of vehicles, and if so, might that company not have already got a CARB certification for CA that would act as an umbrella under which our kits would therefore be covered? Could we already be certified and not realize it, because a key component in our kit is certified?
Brian, I was thinking about the list you found. DR is the manufacturer of the kit we're discussing, but in fact he is purchasing some of those key components from other manufacturers in order to assemble the kit along with the items he is having machined himself. Could it be that DR is sourcing one of the key components (remember, I'm technology challenged) from a company that sells supercharger kits for a large range of vehicles, and if so, might that company not have already got a CARB certification for CA that would act as an umbrella under which our kits would therefore be covered? Could we already be certified and not realize it, because a key component in our kit is certified?
10-15-2007, 05:41 PM
#32
Race Director
My understanding is the kit or at least the blower must be certified for the specific vehicle application. There are no general certifications. It's rather expensive and tedious, so it's almost always done for high volume applications, not out of production vehicles. If DR does this he will move up officially past sainthood and become the 928 Pope, at least in California.
A CARB approved supercharged 928 would be a dream come true.......
I did some more research on whats required...............its really not that expensive... its about $1500 per test at a certified lab.... so if all goes well its $3k to get the EO# needed to pass visual?
Since it is government....I do wonder how long it would take....the lab I called said all they need is the letter from CARB defining the test parameters & they can get started...... The online application from CARB didn't list any fees either?
We have 4 people willing to buy a CARB kit right now.....my guess is it would jump to 10+ overnight.....I just wonder if one cert is good for all S4's...or only 1 model year....then it really gets expensive quick?
10-15-2007, 05:51 PM
#33
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It would be great if there was a CARB-blessed kit - in fact I imagine there's people in CA who'd pay a premium for it (which would be a decent way to recover costs).
If any manufacturer wanted to go to the trouble of getting an EO#, I for one would be willing to pay an extra fee for it (and not complain if non-carb-needing people didn't pay any extra fee since they are not using the extra effort that went into certification).
You could even drop the fee in the future if enough people had "contributed" to cover costs - wouldn't make me the least bit upset to have put in extra money to make the cert happen quickly.
$0.02
If any manufacturer wanted to go to the trouble of getting an EO#, I for one would be willing to pay an extra fee for it (and not complain if non-carb-needing people didn't pay any extra fee since they are not using the extra effort that went into certification).
You could even drop the fee in the future if enough people had "contributed" to cover costs - wouldn't make me the least bit upset to have put in extra money to make the cert happen quickly.
$0.02
10-15-2007, 05:56 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
I happen to have, um, a second house in a non-smog county, where I have my car registered, so I don't have to get the car smogged every 2 years.
But it would be nice to have a CARB-legal option, so you could put me down as the fifth.
If it's really only a few thousand $ to get the system CARB-legal, why not just put on a modest surchage for CA deliveries until you're paid back the investment--like a toll road. I'm sure the fact that no systems are smog compatible in CA is surely holding some people back. Isn't the largest concentration of 928s in CA?
But it would be nice to have a CARB-legal option, so you could put me down as the fifth.
If it's really only a few thousand $ to get the system CARB-legal, why not just put on a modest surchage for CA deliveries until you're paid back the investment--like a toll road. I'm sure the fact that no systems are smog compatible in CA is surely holding some people back. Isn't the largest concentration of 928s in CA?
10-15-2007, 07:45 PM
#35
Race Director
I happen to have, um, a second house in a non-smog county, where I have my car registered, so I don't have to get the car smogged every 2 years.
But it would be nice to have a CARB-legal option, so you could put me down as the fifth.
If it's really only a few thousand $ to get the system CARB-legal, why not just put on a modest surchage for CA deliveries until you're paid back the investment--like a toll road. I'm sure the fact that no systems are smog compatible in CA is surely holding some people back. Isn't the largest concentration of 928s in CA?
But it would be nice to have a CARB-legal option, so you could put me down as the fifth.
If it's really only a few thousand $ to get the system CARB-legal, why not just put on a modest surchage for CA deliveries until you're paid back the investment--like a toll road. I'm sure the fact that no systems are smog compatible in CA is surely holding some people back. Isn't the largest concentration of 928s in CA?
DR or Murphy need to jump on the bandwagon quick!
10-15-2007, 08:07 PM
#36
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I expect that the paperwork headaches would add substantially to the $2.5k in "expenses".
Rummaging through other boards seems to suggest that the carb-cert process is a couple-year effort, which can be accomplished if one is diligent and crosses all t's, dots all i's of the strict requirements. But it ain't just a fill-out-a-form and perform-a-$2.5k-test operation.
Sigh.
Yes - I am ready willing and able to subsidize either of our two heroic SC R&D outfits with an order, and a premium on top it for a kit that has a little carb sticker on it for visual inspection needs.
PS Do they check those numbers on the sticker? Would it be evil of me to consider pulling one off a K&N filter and pasting it on the SC?
Rummaging through other boards seems to suggest that the carb-cert process is a couple-year effort, which can be accomplished if one is diligent and crosses all t's, dots all i's of the strict requirements. But it ain't just a fill-out-a-form and perform-a-$2.5k-test operation.
Sigh.
Yes - I am ready willing and able to subsidize either of our two heroic SC R&D outfits with an order, and a premium on top it for a kit that has a little carb sticker on it for visual inspection needs.
PS Do they check those numbers on the sticker? Would it be evil of me to consider pulling one off a K&N filter and pasting it on the SC?
10-15-2007, 08:45 PM
#37
Bill, is the blower that is in the DR kit manufactured by DR himself, or is that something that he will be sourcing from another company. In the case of the latter, do you know which company is being used to supply the blower for the DR kit?
thanks
Gary
thanks
Gary
10-15-2007, 09:38 PM
#38
Race Director
Bill has a Jag-eaton M112 2.4L roots type blower..... DR uses the autorotor twinscrew 1.6L (not sure..maybe 2.0L)....since the autorotors are more efficient.... Bills kit is an older kit that are no longer manufactured made by Andy Keel......DR bought Andy's molds and improved on the design....so I guess Bill has an early-early verison of DR's kit
10-15-2007, 09:56 PM
#39
Race Car
Looking on the list of approved systems all of the following manufactures are listed, Paxton, Eaton, Magnuson, Autorotor and many others. It looks like the main thing is defining your application. Here is an example of what several CARB approved vendors were listing:
"The Kleemann Comfort Power Compressor Kit consists of an Autorotor supercharger with a pulley diameter of 87mm for the 6 cylinder engine and 75mm for the 8 cylinder engine. The factory fuel system is modified with an additional fuel pressure regulator that raises fuel rail pressure in proportion to the positive manifold pressure. The factory intake manifold is replaced with a new manifold housing that contains the supercharger and intercooler assembly. The EGR tube inside the manifold is modified to ensure even distribution of gases into each cylinder. The factory electric air injection pump is relocated to the inside fender area. Maximum boost pressure is 7 psi. The C class models receive a voltage step up device for the fuel pump when in the boost mode. A 500 ohm resistor, designed to prevent a lean condition during high RPMs, is installed inline with the output signal of the mass air flow meter. "
Maybe it is as simple as submitting the application, installing the kit and have testing scheduled thru the lab. At that time they would likely test to make sure the "kit" matches the description submitted and that the car passes emissions requirements.
Who knows, someone should submit the form and get the wheels in motion if it is that simple. It would be nice to see a CARB legal kit, dang and I live in VA. =)
Michael
"The Kleemann Comfort Power Compressor Kit consists of an Autorotor supercharger with a pulley diameter of 87mm for the 6 cylinder engine and 75mm for the 8 cylinder engine. The factory fuel system is modified with an additional fuel pressure regulator that raises fuel rail pressure in proportion to the positive manifold pressure. The factory intake manifold is replaced with a new manifold housing that contains the supercharger and intercooler assembly. The EGR tube inside the manifold is modified to ensure even distribution of gases into each cylinder. The factory electric air injection pump is relocated to the inside fender area. Maximum boost pressure is 7 psi. The C class models receive a voltage step up device for the fuel pump when in the boost mode. A 500 ohm resistor, designed to prevent a lean condition during high RPMs, is installed inline with the output signal of the mass air flow meter. "
Maybe it is as simple as submitting the application, installing the kit and have testing scheduled thru the lab. At that time they would likely test to make sure the "kit" matches the description submitted and that the car passes emissions requirements.
Who knows, someone should submit the form and get the wheels in motion if it is that simple. It would be nice to see a CARB legal kit, dang and I live in VA. =)
Michael
10-15-2007, 10:39 PM
#40
Thanks for looking into that Michael, that actually answers the question I was after. I think if the kit were CARB certified you could count me in for one, but if it's not, I probably won't play - it wouldn't be worth it to me to have it pulled out every time they wanted to test the car. If DR had to charge a "CARB tax" for California drivers in order to pay for the certification, I wouldn't be opposed to that idea in principle - makes sense to me, if we're the only ones who require the certification.
10-16-2007, 12:14 AM
#41
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I get about 2-3 weekends a year where I am a bachelor and can play alone in the garage. That makes those weekends pretty priceless. While I will probably buy an SC next summer whether it's CARB'ed or not, I'd happily pay my share ($500? $800?) of a sunshine tax on a CARB-compliant system so that I don't blow up one of my weekends every other year R&R'ing the blower.
As they say, what's your time worth?
As they say, what's your time worth?
10-16-2007, 05:06 AM
#42
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Well, I hope it's simple to get CARB certified, but I've heard it's not. The form that Brian linked does look pretty unintimidating. Go for it, DR!
I volunteer my vehicle as the CARB test mule! It's already been SC-tested and is in excellent mechanical condition. Currently the exhaust system and engine are totally stock.
I'd pay the CA surcharge if there is one. I'd volunteer to participate in any of the installations.
I volunteer my vehicle as the CARB test mule! It's already been SC-tested and is in excellent mechanical condition. Currently the exhaust system and engine are totally stock.
I'd pay the CA surcharge if there is one. I'd volunteer to participate in any of the installations.
10-16-2007, 06:06 AM
#43
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Awesome - another shark owner in the area! Welcome, and hope to meet you at one of the upcoming drives/events. Your shark is beautiful!
10-16-2007, 06:16 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by Rog
so that I don't blow up one of my weekends every other year R&R'ing the blower.