shmark

So let's just say I was able to acquire a running engine (with the car thrown in for free) for a really good price, and I want a project to play with in the garage. Is there a good online reference for rebuilding the engine, for a first-timer? I've done just about everything short of an engine rebuild so I have plenty of tools, including the engine hoist.

Let's also say this would be a performance rebuild. What would you do? My first thoughts are a stroker crank, suitable pistons & rods, euro heads and intake, and a modern engine management system (coil packs, FI & ignition control, etc.). Taking it further, sleeving the bores and really raising the displacement, decked heads, valves and a fancy grind...the mind wanders.

Mark

karl ruiter

16v motors are really simple to rebuild (as long as there are no piston/cylinder wall issues) although gaseket sets and rings and such for some configurations of the motors are relatively expensive. But I'm afraid your second paragraph looks a lot like $20,000 or so to me. Are you watching what Enzo is doing?

hacker-pschorr

Um, all of the above?

The setup you suggest is at least a $10,000 motor if you do all the work. With that kind of budget you have many very fun options

Do you have a budget in mind? That can help steer a project like this in a certain direction.

Sounds like a fun. Don't let these guys tell you to go buy a 32 valve either!!!

shmark

I know, it gets expensive in the second paragraph. But getting a running engine is practically free so why not really play with it? The budget doesn't scare me because I wouldn't be doing it in a weekend. This is something for me to tinker with over a few months, getting into the garage and enjoying myself. I'll have another engine in a nice car to drive in the meantime.

Mark

shmark

I also have to say I'd go n/a for the first round. I'm basically an n/a guy even though my last two cars have been turbo and supercharged, respectively. Besides, building a performance n/a engine means if I ever did supercharge it, the result would be seriously wicked.

Mark

karl ruiter

I know what you mean about that. Something about boost seems kinda like windsurfing to my surfer sole: fun, but off the true path. I recently upgraded to an euro S motor, and the next steps for me are a really good exhaust and poor ken's cam timing setup and then some instrumentation to allow me to see what is happeing in terms of mixure and power. We will see from there. I suspect that by the time am ready to move further there will be some new options. These sorts of projects take me years to get done now.

slate blue

Mark how much power are you after? I'm building three 2 valve motors at present, a 5.0 litre which is built and running, I have done the 1/4 mile with a 110 mph trap speed but got a bad start so I would think you could add a few mph to that, plus I had a passenger. I will dyno this coming week, I did a dyno run this week but the figures made no sense, I expect atleast 330 rwhp on dyno dynamics dyno or about 350 on a dynojet.

The next engine is a 5.4 litre with big intake valves 2.08" and slightly modified everything else, espect around 375 rwhp from that one if the other car comes in where I expect.

The final engine or big daddy will be 6.0 litres and is fully bespoke including the crank design, with a capacity to rev to 8000 rpm now, Intake valves are 2.10", if I get lucky it will have around 500 rwhp. Time will tell but the bits going in can certainly handle it. The extra revs although for a gearing advantage, 55 mph in first and 90 mph in second for a 5 speed car.

Good luck with your project

Greg

Lizard928

with regards to your second paragraph,

if you go stroker, or bore the block you will be getting custom pistons, in this event you specify the CR desired, and then you do not shave or deck the block.

marton

I believe that boring or sleeving the 16v is not so simple because they do not have so much material as the later blocks. I recommend you do a search to see what problems/solutions other had in this area.
Otherwise sounds like you will have great fun with this project.
As others said, you will get much more bang for your buck by supercharging but looks like your preference is otherwise

Good luck

Marton

shmark

Hard to say how much power I want...top fuel dragster? Nah. I like road courses and this is a chance to have some fun and end up with something interesting. With the 4.5 pushing all of 220hp (I make that in my Mini), anything would help. 300rwhp would be fantastic, which represents a gain of at least 100hp. That's a good rebuild plus euro heads/cams, headers and a modern management system. Doing that with a 4.7 would be a little easier. I'd love to hit 400rwhp but that would take a stroker setup and the price just tripled. If I built it over the course of months, no problem and that is within budget.

BTW it looks like the car I was angling for just got sold before I could get down there. But I've got a line on a couple others locally. I'm also still looking for a nice driver - this would be a project to play with.

slate blue

By Shmark So 375 rwhp wouldn't be enough? I'm building that engine right now, it is 5.4 litres and is a high compression standard stroke engine, it does have modified cams and big valve heads, it uses a Euro intake and Kevin Johnson crank scraper setup, plus it is assembled with some love and care.

The proviso on that number is that my current engine a 5 litre does what it should on the dyno this coming week, that being around 410 flywheel hp or 340 rwhp. The wait for that number has been painful as the dyno has been broken for over a month now, I tried another dyno but the numbers are a bit crazy. However if we exclude the raw numbers and look at them in a comparitive way, you will find the following;

More power on that dyno than a Gen 111 5.7 litre and LS2 engine, more power than a twin tunnel rammed 350 chev, that I couldn't hear my car running over the sound of his engine! So I have no idea what type of power is there, I do know I have been 110 mph through the 1/4 with a bad start and a passenger and I expect to be able to get to 115 mph by myself on a decent surface, so I would say this is pretty powerful setup for a modest amount of money, the extra capacity is achieved through 104 mm pistons.

Greg

shmark

Yes 375rwhp is definitely enough. I'm interested in the setup - stock crank? Lightened, knife-edged I'm assuming. If it's a custom crank, why not just go with a stroker? What did you have to do to fit the 104mm pistons? This sounds like exactly the kind of project I'd enjoy.

slate blue

By ShmarkMark this project was designed to be affordable, just so it does use the stock crank, I was and might still clean up the rods and crank, I will use the early still rods, the sinter forged ones and I have a 84 model crank which will just save on the weight removal a bit due to lighter counter weights, the bob weight will be less because the pistons that I am having made at the moment will be lighter than the originals. These are the same pistons I asked some time ago on this board was anybody interested in a group buy to which there was deafely silence.

To fit 104 mm pistons I have bought myself another block, from a 86 model, these blocks have the mountings ready to go for the throttle body. I am also having the valves custom made 2.08" and just having the bowls blended. I am also using 944 intake manifold bases and injector rails which are modified to fit the 928. That is I am milling off the bases and welding on Euro intake runners, I will port them while they are in this state and this mod will allow me to use the higher fuel pressure of the S4 and a multipoint injector.

This engine will go in an auto and as such I will use my knowledge from my first engine to design that cam profile, idle quality being critcial there.
Anyway I will post the dyno run this week if the dyno is fixed, that run will give me an excellent idea of the power to come, I called it last time to within 5 hp so lets hope I keep that up. The engine had the same power at the wheels as a LS2 manual before I made a few changes the major one being the cam, so time will tell.

Greg

shmark

By all means, keep us up to date. With all the boosted 928s around, it's nice to see a powerful n/a being built. And if the price is reasonable, so much the better. What's the compression ratio you were going for?

slate blue

The comp ratio will be at least 11.5 in this engine and the big engine is 12 to 1, I realise that 12 to one is too high for the U.S but 11 to 1 should be O.K if you take the same care that I am taking in preparation. Remember 3% increase in power per comp point.

Greg