oil pan gasket leaking
03-08-2003, 02:40 AM
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oil pan gasket leaking
The oil pan gasket on my 928 GTS is leaking (seams not to be unusual). Is there a place I can find instructions on replacing it? How much work is required, what parts need to be removed? Easy or difficult? I am just starting to work on the car.
Harald
Harald
03-08-2003, 03:41 AM
#2
Harald,
Have you recently changed the oil?
Specifically, did you use a synthetic oil?
Not long ago there were multiple posts indicating that after switching to a synthetic oil there were a variety of leaks.
You may get away with snugging the pan bolts.
I am not sure of the torque, sorry. Torque in the correct sequence.
You will probably have to drop the thin aluminum engine pan to reach all of the oil pan bolts. I believe they are all 8mm.
Check the Renlist archives using the search feature at the top of the page, visit the Greg Nichols Site at: <a href="http://www.nichols.nu/tips/com." target="_blank">http://www.nichols.nu/tips/com.</a>
Enjoy the pride of Deutchland.
Haben sie zwei Hoffbrau, Bitte?
John S.
Have you recently changed the oil?
Specifically, did you use a synthetic oil?
Not long ago there were multiple posts indicating that after switching to a synthetic oil there were a variety of leaks.
You may get away with snugging the pan bolts.
I am not sure of the torque, sorry. Torque in the correct sequence.
You will probably have to drop the thin aluminum engine pan to reach all of the oil pan bolts. I believe they are all 8mm.
Check the Renlist archives using the search feature at the top of the page, visit the Greg Nichols Site at: <a href="http://www.nichols.nu/tips/com." target="_blank">http://www.nichols.nu/tips/com.</a>
Enjoy the pride of Deutchland.
Haben sie zwei Hoffbrau, Bitte?
John S.
03-08-2003, 04:24 AM
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I have just purchased the car and yes, the oil was just changed.
But due to the maintenance records synthetic oil was used at least the last 4 years. Before that time the car was maintained at a Porsche dealer, and I do not know any dealer who would not use synthetic oil (they charge about 18 $ for a quart!).
So there was no switching in the oil type.
I have used the search on this forum but was not successful in determining how much work is involved, will look at the nichols site. In Germany hopefully the ugly weather will pass away for spring, but I remember "very" good times in Texas (exept the highway speed limits) :-)
Harald
--------------------
928 GTS 1994
944 S2 1991
Yamaha FZR 1000
But due to the maintenance records synthetic oil was used at least the last 4 years. Before that time the car was maintained at a Porsche dealer, and I do not know any dealer who would not use synthetic oil (they charge about 18 $ for a quart!).
So there was no switching in the oil type.
I have used the search on this forum but was not successful in determining how much work is involved, will look at the nichols site. In Germany hopefully the ugly weather will pass away for spring, but I remember "very" good times in Texas (exept the highway speed limits) :-)
Harald
--------------------
928 GTS 1994
944 S2 1991
Yamaha FZR 1000
03-08-2003, 09:38 AM
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harald,
it's a fair amount of work as you will need to remove everything from under the motor to get at the pan. this includes the steering rack, engine crossmember, front suspension lower control arms and motor mounts. the engine must be supported while you do this, and there are differnt ways to accomplish that either from below or above. it's a job that you can do yourself but will take a good weekend. the hardest part for me was to reinstall the crossmember. a second set of hands is definitely helpful.
you might try tightening the bolts a bit but be careful not to overtighten them as that may just make the leak worse. also might consider going to a different gasket material if you do it as the cork ones are prone to leaking over time. there's a rubberized cork one available from a guy in chancellorsville virginia (near me) though his name escapes me at this point. for me that worked very well.
it's a fair amount of work as you will need to remove everything from under the motor to get at the pan. this includes the steering rack, engine crossmember, front suspension lower control arms and motor mounts. the engine must be supported while you do this, and there are differnt ways to accomplish that either from below or above. it's a job that you can do yourself but will take a good weekend. the hardest part for me was to reinstall the crossmember. a second set of hands is definitely helpful.
you might try tightening the bolts a bit but be careful not to overtighten them as that may just make the leak worse. also might consider going to a different gasket material if you do it as the cork ones are prone to leaking over time. there's a rubberized cork one available from a guy in chancellorsville virginia (near me) though his name escapes me at this point. for me that worked very well.
03-08-2003, 09:51 AM
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Tom: Do you have a picture of barney?
Harald: My car had a leak at he oil pan as well. My understanding is that they neeed to lift the engine somewhat, in order to get full access. I believe, they need to losen the steering rack (Lenkgetriebe) as well. You should consider combining this job with other repairs or preventive maintenance in that area, such as the motor mounts (Motorlager).
I believe, I paid something around $1,000 for getting the oil pan gasket and the motor mounts done (3 years ago). The new motor mounts made a huge difference! If your car has more than 60k miles or 100.000 km on it, you'll need those anyway.
BTW: DEVEK sometimes has specials (Sonderangebote) on the motor mounts. There are also some Ford Mustang motor mounts that are pretty much the same. You might want to search this board for information on those.
Also, I have heard that it's not a good idea to retorque the oil pan bolts. Apparently, the guys at the Factory Repair Center (Werk 1, Zuffenhausen) use Loctite and then torque the bolts to spec. Again, that's something you might want to research some more.
Viel Spaß beim cruisen und durch die City düsen...!
Harald: My car had a leak at he oil pan as well. My understanding is that they neeed to lift the engine somewhat, in order to get full access. I believe, they need to losen the steering rack (Lenkgetriebe) as well. You should consider combining this job with other repairs or preventive maintenance in that area, such as the motor mounts (Motorlager).
I believe, I paid something around $1,000 for getting the oil pan gasket and the motor mounts done (3 years ago). The new motor mounts made a huge difference! If your car has more than 60k miles or 100.000 km on it, you'll need those anyway.
BTW: DEVEK sometimes has specials (Sonderangebote) on the motor mounts. There are also some Ford Mustang motor mounts that are pretty much the same. You might want to search this board for information on those.
Also, I have heard that it's not a good idea to retorque the oil pan bolts. Apparently, the guys at the Factory Repair Center (Werk 1, Zuffenhausen) use Loctite and then torque the bolts to spec. Again, that's something you might want to research some more.
Viel Spaß beim cruisen und durch die City düsen...!
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03-08-2003, 01:45 PM
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A group of us did a pan-and-motormount project about a year ago. With a couple of us at a time working on it, we consumed more than the best part of a day. That's with a lift and the right tools.
Dropped the steering rack and the crossmember to get access to the mounts and the pan. That allowed the pan to drop pretty much straight down. Others have mentioned that they were able to slightly lift the engine, lower the pan to the crossmember, then reach in and unbolt the pickup tube, dropping in into tha pan. Then slide the pan out. As Nicole mentions, mounts are a common mileage-related replacement task so the first method is probably the one you want to think about.
The original pan gasket is cork with no neoprene reinforcement, so any bit of squish on the sump bolts will push the gasket out. The torque spec for those 6mm sump bolts (10mm head...) is in inch-pounds, and most of them aren't accessible with a socket on the little click-stop torque scewdriver or the regular torque wrench anyway. So most of the work will be by feel/touch if you decide to try to just snug them a bit. On my '89 they were finger-loose. I pulled them up until they just touched the pan, then added 1/4 turn of tension. The seepage has slowed considerably but there's still a trace in the belly pan that occasionally make a spot on the garage floor. I have motor mounts in my future so the sump gasket will get done then too.
Many are recommending an improved gasket that's occasionally seen on E-bay. Others will chime in with links/sources/recommendations on this.
Common recommendation is to use Yamabond sealer on the gasket. Thick grey goo. There's a Hondabond adhesive that's the same stuff, by the way. Scooter places sell both. I'm not sure I'd be able to reinstall the oil pickup while reaching over the layer of grey matter, so the Yamabond may not be an option if you choose not to drop the crossmember.
After reading all this and after participating in that effort last spring, I gotta tell you that the $1k Devek cost of motor mounts and sump gasket is sounding pretty sweet right now. Have you had a local quote on replacement? Consider that the mounts, even on sale here, are almost $400/pr. It would take me the better part of two days lying on the floor, and that easily equates to more than the $600 labor cost, at least here where business time constantly crowds home 928 play time. There are seasons when I'd do this myself in a heartbeat, calling it therapy. Or make it a home tech-session item with some friends and some steaks. This isn't turning into one of those seasons for me, however.
Dropped the steering rack and the crossmember to get access to the mounts and the pan. That allowed the pan to drop pretty much straight down. Others have mentioned that they were able to slightly lift the engine, lower the pan to the crossmember, then reach in and unbolt the pickup tube, dropping in into tha pan. Then slide the pan out. As Nicole mentions, mounts are a common mileage-related replacement task so the first method is probably the one you want to think about.
The original pan gasket is cork with no neoprene reinforcement, so any bit of squish on the sump bolts will push the gasket out. The torque spec for those 6mm sump bolts (10mm head...) is in inch-pounds, and most of them aren't accessible with a socket on the little click-stop torque scewdriver or the regular torque wrench anyway. So most of the work will be by feel/touch if you decide to try to just snug them a bit. On my '89 they were finger-loose. I pulled them up until they just touched the pan, then added 1/4 turn of tension. The seepage has slowed considerably but there's still a trace in the belly pan that occasionally make a spot on the garage floor. I have motor mounts in my future so the sump gasket will get done then too.
Many are recommending an improved gasket that's occasionally seen on E-bay. Others will chime in with links/sources/recommendations on this.
Common recommendation is to use Yamabond sealer on the gasket. Thick grey goo. There's a Hondabond adhesive that's the same stuff, by the way. Scooter places sell both. I'm not sure I'd be able to reinstall the oil pickup while reaching over the layer of grey matter, so the Yamabond may not be an option if you choose not to drop the crossmember.
After reading all this and after participating in that effort last spring, I gotta tell you that the $1k Devek cost of motor mounts and sump gasket is sounding pretty sweet right now. Have you had a local quote on replacement? Consider that the mounts, even on sale here, are almost $400/pr. It would take me the better part of two days lying on the floor, and that easily equates to more than the $600 labor cost, at least here where business time constantly crowds home 928 play time. There are seasons when I'd do this myself in a heartbeat, calling it therapy. Or make it a home tech-session item with some friends and some steaks. This isn't turning into one of those seasons for me, however.
03-08-2003, 04:09 PM
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nicole,
barneys in a few pieces right now waiting on some parts to reassemble. should be done in a couple of weeks and i'll post a few pics then.
back to the thread, i agree with dr bob in that i would likely pay someone to do this job the next time.
barneys in a few pieces right now waiting on some parts to reassemble. should be done in a couple of weeks and i'll post a few pics then.
back to the thread, i agree with dr bob in that i would likely pay someone to do this job the next time.
03-09-2003, 11:35 AM
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I just changed my steering rack and motor mounts...and after I got done with that job, the notion of paying someone ELSE to get intensely filthy and a sore back like I did sure sounded pretty good!
THOSE MOUNTS made a hell of a difference. Now it seems like the car next to mine has started up when I turn the key- I can't feel the familiar rumbling vibration anymore.
-While I was in there, I cleaned everything. 18 years of accumulated grime- It was incredible! That new cleanliness did not make it easier to put that crossmember back on. I spent a couple hours swearing just doing that!
And I torqued my pan bolts too. Some of them were so loose that I could move them with my fingers...Funny, I really didn't have many oil leaks- just a leaky rack. Now the garage is dry...
Or is it? That coolant spot under the radiator is getting larger~ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />
Normy!
'85 S2 5 Speed
THOSE MOUNTS made a hell of a difference. Now it seems like the car next to mine has started up when I turn the key- I can't feel the familiar rumbling vibration anymore.
-While I was in there, I cleaned everything. 18 years of accumulated grime- It was incredible! That new cleanliness did not make it easier to put that crossmember back on. I spent a couple hours swearing just doing that!
And I torqued my pan bolts too. Some of them were so loose that I could move them with my fingers...Funny, I really didn't have many oil leaks- just a leaky rack. Now the garage is dry...
Or is it? That coolant spot under the radiator is getting larger~ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />
Normy!
'85 S2 5 Speed
03-09-2003, 01:36 PM
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Here is the source for improved pan gaskets
<a href="http://www.ultramaticdynamics.com/" target="_blank">http://www.ultramaticdynamics.com/</a>
Chris
<a href="http://www.ultramaticdynamics.com/" target="_blank">http://www.ultramaticdynamics.com/</a>
Chris
03-11-2003, 08:50 PM
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FYI, I contacted Ultramatic Dynamics about the oil pan gasket. Here's the correspondence:
--- Original Message ---
>I'm interested in your 1977-89 Porsche 928 oil pan gasket.
>
>What is the price and availability?
>
>Are any sealants recommended when using your gasket?
>
>Is there a recommended bolt torque or tightening procedure when using your gasket?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Scott Graves
--- Reply ---
>$15 plus $3 shipping Total $18 to:
>Peter Fitch
>13000 Mill Rd
>Fredericksburg, VA 22407-2224
>
>No special goop or procedures needed........just make sure its clean and tighten hand tight. Pete
--- Original Message ---
>I'm interested in your 1977-89 Porsche 928 oil pan gasket.
>
>What is the price and availability?
>
>Are any sealants recommended when using your gasket?
>
>Is there a recommended bolt torque or tightening procedure when using your gasket?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Scott Graves
--- Reply ---
>$15 plus $3 shipping Total $18 to:
>Peter Fitch
>13000 Mill Rd
>Fredericksburg, VA 22407-2224
>
>No special goop or procedures needed........just make sure its clean and tighten hand tight. Pete
