928 prices in Germany
03-07-2003, 12:37 AM
#17
Nordschleife Master
Rember the US foreign car craze?
When just about everything comeing out of Detroit was junk, and over seas corporations where produceing some realy good cars? Rember the pathetic, complicated, stupid "smog carbaraters", the oversized land yatchs, and the quality control problems? In comparason to the US's stumbling ability to match emisions regs, Honda and VW with their CVCC, and L-jetronic, were able to do it seemingly w/o problems.
Basicly, it was felt if the gov't didn't give US auto manufactors a helping hand, it was worryed that it wasn't going to exist. The parallel was draw to the now non-existant US electronic's industry. It is possible that w/o such laws, there MIGHT not be a US auto industry. I'm not sure if thats bad or good, but it was thought of as bad.
Now that the US auto industry is doing so well, it's probably time to get rid of the laws, but that ain't gonna happen. The importation laws are one thing mannagement and labor agree on...
Inside the US, the Japanese get blaimed for their not exactly "fair" trade practices. As I understand it, they were among the first to try to control the auto trade by slow, over critical "safty inspections". That and brash things like, if a Japanese citizen bought a US car, he were audited, and they always find something. I'm not sure how true this is, I've never been to Japan, but this has alought to do with the justification for many of the anti-importation laws.
It was made to include all nations, both for good measure, and not to be "racest".
Btw, IMHO some of the things the US wanted did make sence. The side door beams seem pretty neat to me. The catalitic converter and smogs pumps are pretty good in my opinion. Same with unleaded gasoline. (Which is dirictly to blaim for the low compression ratios.)
Some of them are just stupid hold overs, that were never repealed, like the side markers, and sealed headlights.
When just about everything comeing out of Detroit was junk, and over seas corporations where produceing some realy good cars? Rember the pathetic, complicated, stupid "smog carbaraters", the oversized land yatchs, and the quality control problems? In comparason to the US's stumbling ability to match emisions regs, Honda and VW with their CVCC, and L-jetronic, were able to do it seemingly w/o problems.
Basicly, it was felt if the gov't didn't give US auto manufactors a helping hand, it was worryed that it wasn't going to exist. The parallel was draw to the now non-existant US electronic's industry. It is possible that w/o such laws, there MIGHT not be a US auto industry. I'm not sure if thats bad or good, but it was thought of as bad.
Now that the US auto industry is doing so well, it's probably time to get rid of the laws, but that ain't gonna happen. The importation laws are one thing mannagement and labor agree on...
Inside the US, the Japanese get blaimed for their not exactly "fair" trade practices. As I understand it, they were among the first to try to control the auto trade by slow, over critical "safty inspections". That and brash things like, if a Japanese citizen bought a US car, he were audited, and they always find something. I'm not sure how true this is, I've never been to Japan, but this has alought to do with the justification for many of the anti-importation laws.
It was made to include all nations, both for good measure, and not to be "racest".
Btw, IMHO some of the things the US wanted did make sence. The side door beams seem pretty neat to me. The catalitic converter and smogs pumps are pretty good in my opinion. Same with unleaded gasoline. (Which is dirictly to blaim for the low compression ratios.)
Some of them are just stupid hold overs, that were never repealed, like the side markers, and sealed headlights.
03-07-2003, 02:26 AM
#18
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GAWD Nicole you hit the nail on the head!
-Here in the land of the F150... you come to realize that the economy revolves around the automobile. The whole infrastructure of the country is designed around personal automobiles. One only needs to look at a map of Orlando to see that dozens of dirty developers have become hideously rich from urban sprawl~
I mean, everything revolves around the car. From the people paid good wages to build them, to the people paid to produce the petro-chemicals they use...to the parts suppliers, the people in auto parts stores...
-I am certain that "Things Automotive" are the largest part of our economy.
I'm not an economics expert by any means, but I understand enough to know that when people trade, then things happen. Make more trade- more things happen. And since the notion of sales tax exists...more money makes its way to Dubya's coffers.
So..back to September 11, 2001. What was OBL's real target? Buildings- ? People- ? Airplanes- ? You should vote "none of the above". He hoped to crash our economy, not 767's.
-He wanted the stock market to crash. Why? Because our economy is our biggest weapon/strength. This economy is why the USSR is no longer the USSR and I fly through Russian airspace [and even picked up fuel in Khabarovsk] en route to Hong Kong and Seoul. They went out of business because they didn't have the money "to hang".
SO...since power in the world basically comes from economic prowess and our performance in that field depends to a large extent on people spending their dollars and cents on said suburban transports...then logic tells me that the US Government has a good reason to not want US car firms to have competition. Hence the fact that vehicle standards are different in the US than Europe.
My girlfriend drives a Peugeot 406 coupe. Why the hell this car is not available here is beyond me~ I'm not a huge fan of Gallic culture or anything, but this car is NICE LOOKING- perhaps one of the best looking cars ever built, and despite being 3100 lbs/138 hp = SLOW.....it is a nice car. You'd pay about 25K euros for this thing in Belgium, or about $27k- but worth it in terms of new cars. Believe me.
And what would happen to Mustang and Cirrus and a host of other's sales if this were allowed in? Too much, apparently. They would have to crash about 30 of these cars to pass US safety requirements, and then stock several hundred million dollars worth of parts to supports such a vehicle. If it even passed.
This car has 6 airbags, and human beings in Europe do not differ from the same species that populates Florida or Texas or Michigan or California [I think, in regards to the last~]. I am TOTALLY convinced that this is a safe car to drive in. Yet...this 2002 car, built by intelligent modern human beings is not allowed here because it is not considered safe!
You see, the US auto manufacturers have purposely lobbied the government to pass stringent safety laws in order to reduce competition in the one economic field that really powers our economy- "automobilia". That is why we have NOT standardized with the rest of the world, and why you cannot buy a Peugeot 406 Coupe in Florida.
[I still say they are underpowered, even the 210 hp V6 versions!]
Normy!
'85 S2 5 Speed
-Here in the land of the F150... you come to realize that the economy revolves around the automobile. The whole infrastructure of the country is designed around personal automobiles. One only needs to look at a map of Orlando to see that dozens of dirty developers have become hideously rich from urban sprawl~
I mean, everything revolves around the car. From the people paid good wages to build them, to the people paid to produce the petro-chemicals they use...to the parts suppliers, the people in auto parts stores...
-I am certain that "Things Automotive" are the largest part of our economy.
I'm not an economics expert by any means, but I understand enough to know that when people trade, then things happen. Make more trade- more things happen. And since the notion of sales tax exists...more money makes its way to Dubya's coffers.
So..back to September 11, 2001. What was OBL's real target? Buildings- ? People- ? Airplanes- ? You should vote "none of the above". He hoped to crash our economy, not 767's.
-He wanted the stock market to crash. Why? Because our economy is our biggest weapon/strength. This economy is why the USSR is no longer the USSR and I fly through Russian airspace [and even picked up fuel in Khabarovsk] en route to Hong Kong and Seoul. They went out of business because they didn't have the money "to hang".
SO...since power in the world basically comes from economic prowess and our performance in that field depends to a large extent on people spending their dollars and cents on said suburban transports...then logic tells me that the US Government has a good reason to not want US car firms to have competition. Hence the fact that vehicle standards are different in the US than Europe.
My girlfriend drives a Peugeot 406 coupe. Why the hell this car is not available here is beyond me~ I'm not a huge fan of Gallic culture or anything, but this car is NICE LOOKING- perhaps one of the best looking cars ever built, and despite being 3100 lbs/138 hp = SLOW.....it is a nice car. You'd pay about 25K euros for this thing in Belgium, or about $27k- but worth it in terms of new cars. Believe me.
And what would happen to Mustang and Cirrus and a host of other's sales if this were allowed in? Too much, apparently. They would have to crash about 30 of these cars to pass US safety requirements, and then stock several hundred million dollars worth of parts to supports such a vehicle. If it even passed.
This car has 6 airbags, and human beings in Europe do not differ from the same species that populates Florida or Texas or Michigan or California [I think, in regards to the last~]. I am TOTALLY convinced that this is a safe car to drive in. Yet...this 2002 car, built by intelligent modern human beings is not allowed here because it is not considered safe!
You see, the US auto manufacturers have purposely lobbied the government to pass stringent safety laws in order to reduce competition in the one economic field that really powers our economy- "automobilia". That is why we have NOT standardized with the rest of the world, and why you cannot buy a Peugeot 406 Coupe in Florida.
[I still say they are underpowered, even the 210 hp V6 versions!]
Normy!
'85 S2 5 Speed
03-07-2003, 07:30 AM
#19
Track Day
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I totally agree with you Normy. I lived with my family for 5 years in Mass, and when we came back we took with us two cars an 1991 M5 and a 1992 964 c4. It was two much because we had to change Tires, headlights and disconnect the side markers. When we went to the MOT the guy told us that the US spec headlights where worst than the UE ones. For the license plate, in Spain you can use rectangular ones, (most common) and "square type" (for US imported models).
I'm sure than a Chevrolet Cavalier is much worst in a crash test than a peugeot 406 coupe
I'm sure than a Chevrolet Cavalier is much worst in a crash test than a peugeot 406 coupe
03-07-2003, 09:06 AM
#20
In Your Face, Ace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Nicole:
<strong>
Why are there so many less accident deaths per mile driven in Germany, when the cars there don't meet the American idea of a safe car? And Germany doesn't even have a general speed limit!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The biggest reason there are less accidents in Germany is because of better drivers there. Here in the US driver training is a joke and the test is 2 plus 2 and they spot you the 4.. Not to mention the US allows 16 year old kids behind the wheel. When I lived in Germany, I was blown away by the driver training, the test and the fact that it cost around 2000-3000DM(?) for a person to get their license. The whole privilege of driving is taken more serious on every count in Germany. So I agree it is quite hypocritical reasoning on the US's part concerning imported vehicles safety.
<strong>
Why are there so many less accident deaths per mile driven in Germany, when the cars there don't meet the American idea of a safe car? And Germany doesn't even have a general speed limit!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The biggest reason there are less accidents in Germany is because of better drivers there. Here in the US driver training is a joke and the test is 2 plus 2 and they spot you the 4.. Not to mention the US allows 16 year old kids behind the wheel. When I lived in Germany, I was blown away by the driver training, the test and the fact that it cost around 2000-3000DM(?) for a person to get their license. The whole privilege of driving is taken more serious on every count in Germany. So I agree it is quite hypocritical reasoning on the US's part concerning imported vehicles safety.
03-07-2003, 01:17 PM
#21
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I'd say that the answers to Nicole's questions are because of political contributions and pressure by those with something to gain financially by making or keeping those laws the way they are. I have no doubt that if all the 928 owners got together with enough money to make some of those types of political contributions, and have enough potential votes for somebody, an exemption for the importation of 928s would suddenly be allowed .
