The trip from he**.
03-06-2003 | 12:34 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 9,010
Likes: 2
From: South Texas
The trip from he**.
I just had to share with ya'll the trip from he**.
As some of you may rember, I had a rear wheel grip issue last Saterday. Basicly, the rear wheels lost grip for practicaly no reason.
I reinvestigated the sence of the ordel. If I rember correctly, the point that I lost control was right over the crest of a bump, right as I was shifting, and well, thats pretty self explanatory.
However, here's where it gets realy intersting. I'm on my way back home. As I'm driveing, the brake peddle starts to lose feel. It gets softer and softer, and then I make it to a town. I check the brake fluid resivor, and UH OH, no brake fluid! Well, none that I could see. I get to checking the whole system. I feel the calipers for leaks, there are none. I feel the carpet under the peddle for leaks, there are none. I finaly look under the car at the lines. Right under where the driver's feet go, on the outside of the car, it's covered in brake fluid. I flow the leak up, to the pressure sender on the bottem side of the master cylinder. Apperently, over time, the sensor lost it's seal, and now when I push the brake peddel hard, the fluid drips out. I bought some more brake fluid. I added a good bit under a pint. A not noticeable amount driped out over the next 2 hours of driveing. The brake peddle doesn't even realy feel spongy. Werid. New pressure sender, and I'm bleeding the brakes.
However, thats OK, I can deal with leaks, even brake leaks.
I'm going about 65 or so. Too many cops in the area to speed. For a fraction of a second, I take my eye's of the road, to change the radio station, IIRC. I look up, my car's headed into the other lane! She's never meandered like that before! Always follows the camber of the road down, but not this time. UH OH on comeing white Honda!?!?! The Honda dodges, and I wip my steering wheel back my way. Then there's that eare fimiler sound and feeling of the rear tires loseing all grip. Followed by the suddent grab, and the swing around in the oppsite diriction. I dump the clutch just in time to avoid spinning. So far so good. I get control of her right in the middle of a wide, shallow, soft ditch. Uh Oh, I'm stuck, and almost have a heart attack.
No dammage done, the lady in the white Honda comes back around, and checks on me. She's OK, doen't even appere to be shocked. I apologize profucely. She offers to let me use her cell phone to call a tow truck. Thank-you lady in the white Honda, where ever you are. While I'm useing her phone, a guy with a older SUV, and a tow cable comes by, and helps me out. Thank you too.
OK, end of the day is right there right? I can hanndle tow problem in a day, right?
Nope.
I almost make it into town, and a county sherif pulls me over. He's followed by 3, then 4 more!?!?!?! What the heck. That probaly every cruiser in the county! I get out of my car to help the officers with what ever they want. It's my policy that if the officer is takeing the time to get in the cold to stop me, the least I can do is also get out in the cold, and help him with whatever he needs. The first officer tells me to "STOP" "Raise your hands." All the while, he's got his hand resting on his gun. The first thing he says is, "Son, where's the gun." Uh Oh...
It turn out, there were TWO 911 (thats the emergancy number, not the Porsche) calls about a guy in a red car, stuck on the side of the road, with a white driver pointing a gun at passing traffic. I was the only red car stuck in the ditch in that area, on that highway. I got a warning for pulling over to the shoulder to let the cop pass me. Hum...
Later, trying to get back on the road.
It all ended well, but gee wiz, loseing control TWICE, neighter time realy my fault, and then getting pulled over for that!?!?!?!?!
Any one got an opinion on the Sumitomo HTR+ 245/40/17 tires? (those are what seem to keep loseing traction...) Anyone intersted in buying a couple nearly new used tires? I think I know why I'm haveing such bad luck witht he tires, I'll put a picture of the tread up tomarow. There are WIDE, but shallow, spaces in the things. Very little rubber touchs the road.
I think the 928 saved my life again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
Somethings gotta change. I wasn't speeding or anything. There is no excuse for this.
As some of you may rember, I had a rear wheel grip issue last Saterday. Basicly, the rear wheels lost grip for practicaly no reason.
I reinvestigated the sence of the ordel. If I rember correctly, the point that I lost control was right over the crest of a bump, right as I was shifting, and well, thats pretty self explanatory.
However, here's where it gets realy intersting. I'm on my way back home. As I'm driveing, the brake peddle starts to lose feel. It gets softer and softer, and then I make it to a town. I check the brake fluid resivor, and UH OH, no brake fluid! Well, none that I could see. I get to checking the whole system. I feel the calipers for leaks, there are none. I feel the carpet under the peddle for leaks, there are none. I finaly look under the car at the lines. Right under where the driver's feet go, on the outside of the car, it's covered in brake fluid. I flow the leak up, to the pressure sender on the bottem side of the master cylinder. Apperently, over time, the sensor lost it's seal, and now when I push the brake peddel hard, the fluid drips out. I bought some more brake fluid. I added a good bit under a pint. A not noticeable amount driped out over the next 2 hours of driveing. The brake peddle doesn't even realy feel spongy. Werid. New pressure sender, and I'm bleeding the brakes.
However, thats OK, I can deal with leaks, even brake leaks.
I'm going about 65 or so. Too many cops in the area to speed. For a fraction of a second, I take my eye's of the road, to change the radio station, IIRC. I look up, my car's headed into the other lane! She's never meandered like that before! Always follows the camber of the road down, but not this time. UH OH on comeing white Honda!?!?! The Honda dodges, and I wip my steering wheel back my way. Then there's that eare fimiler sound and feeling of the rear tires loseing all grip. Followed by the suddent grab, and the swing around in the oppsite diriction. I dump the clutch just in time to avoid spinning. So far so good. I get control of her right in the middle of a wide, shallow, soft ditch. Uh Oh, I'm stuck, and almost have a heart attack.
No dammage done, the lady in the white Honda comes back around, and checks on me. She's OK, doen't even appere to be shocked. I apologize profucely. She offers to let me use her cell phone to call a tow truck. Thank-you lady in the white Honda, where ever you are. While I'm useing her phone, a guy with a older SUV, and a tow cable comes by, and helps me out. Thank you too.
OK, end of the day is right there right? I can hanndle tow problem in a day, right?
Nope.
I almost make it into town, and a county sherif pulls me over. He's followed by 3, then 4 more!?!?!?! What the heck. That probaly every cruiser in the county! I get out of my car to help the officers with what ever they want. It's my policy that if the officer is takeing the time to get in the cold to stop me, the least I can do is also get out in the cold, and help him with whatever he needs. The first officer tells me to "STOP" "Raise your hands." All the while, he's got his hand resting on his gun. The first thing he says is, "Son, where's the gun." Uh Oh...
It turn out, there were TWO 911 (thats the emergancy number, not the Porsche) calls about a guy in a red car, stuck on the side of the road, with a white driver pointing a gun at passing traffic. I was the only red car stuck in the ditch in that area, on that highway. I got a warning for pulling over to the shoulder to let the cop pass me. Hum...
Later, trying to get back on the road.
It all ended well, but gee wiz, loseing control TWICE, neighter time realy my fault, and then getting pulled over for that!?!?!?!?!
Any one got an opinion on the Sumitomo HTR+ 245/40/17 tires? (those are what seem to keep loseing traction...) Anyone intersted in buying a couple nearly new used tires? I think I know why I'm haveing such bad luck witht he tires, I'll put a picture of the tread up tomarow. There are WIDE, but shallow, spaces in the things. Very little rubber touchs the road.
I think the 928 saved my life again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
Somethings gotta change. I wasn't speeding or anything. There is no excuse for this.
03-06-2003 | 12:48 AM
#3
Pro
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 743
Likes: 0
From: Northern New Jersey
What is the tread wear on those tires? It's usually written on the side of the tire. I know that the higher the number the harder the compound. I usually like the tires to be in between 250-300, anything less than 250 will wear out to quick, but grips really good. Anything more than three hundred wears really good but you sacrifice grip. Sal
03-06-2003 | 01:07 AM
#5
User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,291
Likes: 2
From: Midland, Texas
Didn't have anything to do with the brake fluid did it?
VU,
I thought you recently changed the sensor... or was it two on your car?
If you didn't have a press.Warn light on just pull the offender and check the threads. If the threads are O.K. re-install.
If you don't have the correct size (cut-away)brake wrench you can cut the 'handle'down on a box wrench to get a good bite on the sensor and tighten it down.
Don't reef to hard on the sensor or you'll crush the seat causing a leak.
Unless your warning lights are out you should have had a warning/master caution.
VU,
I thought you recently changed the sensor... or was it two on your car?
If you didn't have a press.Warn light on just pull the offender and check the threads. If the threads are O.K. re-install.
If you don't have the correct size (cut-away)brake wrench you can cut the 'handle'down on a box wrench to get a good bite on the sensor and tighten it down.
Don't reef to hard on the sensor or you'll crush the seat causing a leak.
Unless your warning lights are out you should have had a warning/master caution.
03-06-2003 | 01:09 AM
#6
Pro
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
From: Hotlanta
VU, word of advice. Next time you get pulled over, STAY IN THE FREAKING CAR!!! Preferably with both hands on the wheel in plain site of the officer. I work closely with a lot of police officers and they tell me that just doing those two little things will save you a lot of grief. You are lucky you didn't end up face down eating asphault pie then cuffed in the puke seats.
Think about it, this officer pulls you over believing you have a firearm and the first thing you do when stopped is get out of the car and start towards him?!
Also, fix the dang car before you kill yourself!
Think about it, this officer pulls you over believing you have a firearm and the first thing you do when stopped is get out of the car and start towards him?!
Also, fix the dang car before you kill yourself!
03-06-2003 | 01:39 AM
#7
Thread Starter
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 9,010
Likes: 2
From: South Texas
I'm a fixin' I'm a fixin'!!! I thought I was done with everything!!!!
One of the pressure senders went out before I got the car. I didn't have the money at the time to get her fixed, so I left it like the PO had it, which is one sender pulled, the other one connected. It doesn't feel like it's leaking from between the seal, but between the houseing of the sender itself. I'm going to do further inspection, but it looks to be the sender body itself leaking. I
I've been seeing an oil drip from some where, but always thought it was motor oil. The sender doesn't leak unless it's pressed hard for some reason. So the leak is not readly apperent, unless you press the peddle hard several times in suscession. This was never realy a true problem. Even at it's worst, (ie soft peddle) I still mannaged to lock up the tires and skid. I was trying to do so, just to see how much brakeing I had left. I think someone once said, if you can lock the tires up, it's good enough. The peddle never did feel expecaly spongy. No more so than normal. I've got rubber brake lines, so there is always just a touch.
The tires never showed any shiney spots like they had oil on them. Basicly, other than the annoiance factor, this is a non issue.
The treadwear rateing is 360. The traction "AA', and the temp "A". She sounded good when I bought her. Well, when I bought the tire, I was hurting fincialy from an unsheduled t-belt change, and school. I bought the best I could afford, and even then it was a strech. I had new tires on the rear, when when of them picked up a nail in the side wall, and that was the end of that pair. Buying a new set of tires so soon after buying the car, and the t-belt, and the steering rack, and the fount tires was a bit of a shock to the pocket book. I was OK, untill the second pair of tires where called in.
Money wise, things are better now. I'm on nearly full scholorship and have been for the last semester, and I'm getting a job lined up for the summer. The Lawn Ornamate (and the g/f) will receive the kind of attention she needs!
Anyone intersted in a pair of Sumitomo HTR+ tires? ;-) I'll sell 'em to you cheap...
A new set of rear tires are trying to find my rims. In the mean time, I've got to rember to watch out extra careful, I don't belive it was just a set of sorry tires. Maybe, but...
Thanks for the tip, KBlair. I always assumed that one should get out and stand by the rear bumper. And basicly say something along the lines of "How can I help you." This away the officer isn't near any traffic, and he can already see your hands. Hopefuly, you've already got your licence, regstration, and insurance in your hands. That and try to be freindly.
Anyways, I haven't asked any cops about this so, I'll take your word for it.
Btw, how the heck am I suppost to know he thinks I've got a gun. I don't even own a fire arm, and if I did, it wouldn't be in the 928. For all I know, it was about the me getting stuck.
One of the pressure senders went out before I got the car. I didn't have the money at the time to get her fixed, so I left it like the PO had it, which is one sender pulled, the other one connected. It doesn't feel like it's leaking from between the seal, but between the houseing of the sender itself. I'm going to do further inspection, but it looks to be the sender body itself leaking. I
I've been seeing an oil drip from some where, but always thought it was motor oil. The sender doesn't leak unless it's pressed hard for some reason. So the leak is not readly apperent, unless you press the peddle hard several times in suscession. This was never realy a true problem. Even at it's worst, (ie soft peddle) I still mannaged to lock up the tires and skid. I was trying to do so, just to see how much brakeing I had left. I think someone once said, if you can lock the tires up, it's good enough. The peddle never did feel expecaly spongy. No more so than normal. I've got rubber brake lines, so there is always just a touch.
The tires never showed any shiney spots like they had oil on them. Basicly, other than the annoiance factor, this is a non issue.
The treadwear rateing is 360. The traction "AA', and the temp "A". She sounded good when I bought her. Well, when I bought the tire, I was hurting fincialy from an unsheduled t-belt change, and school. I bought the best I could afford, and even then it was a strech. I had new tires on the rear, when when of them picked up a nail in the side wall, and that was the end of that pair. Buying a new set of tires so soon after buying the car, and the t-belt, and the steering rack, and the fount tires was a bit of a shock to the pocket book. I was OK, untill the second pair of tires where called in.
Money wise, things are better now. I'm on nearly full scholorship and have been for the last semester, and I'm getting a job lined up for the summer. The Lawn Ornamate (and the g/f) will receive the kind of attention she needs!
Anyone intersted in a pair of Sumitomo HTR+ tires? ;-) I'll sell 'em to you cheap...
A new set of rear tires are trying to find my rims. In the mean time, I've got to rember to watch out extra careful, I don't belive it was just a set of sorry tires. Maybe, but...
Thanks for the tip, KBlair. I always assumed that one should get out and stand by the rear bumper. And basicly say something along the lines of "How can I help you." This away the officer isn't near any traffic, and he can already see your hands. Hopefuly, you've already got your licence, regstration, and insurance in your hands. That and try to be freindly.
Anyways, I haven't asked any cops about this so, I'll take your word for it.
Btw, how the heck am I suppost to know he thinks I've got a gun. I don't even own a fire arm, and if I did, it wouldn't be in the 928. For all I know, it was about the me getting stuck.
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03-06-2003 | 01:48 AM
#8
User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,291
Likes: 2
From: Midland, Texas
VU,
Yikes!!!
I hope you mean the PO had just pulled the wires.
Either that, or the the hole for the 'pulled' sensor had to be capped with a threaded plug. Otherwise you would be pumping fluid everytime you pushed the brake pedal. And sucking air/contaminents when you released the pedal.
Take a look at the back end of the drivers-side, front, inner-fenderwell. There should be a lot of brake fluid there from what you have described.
FIX IT OR LOSE IT!
John S.
Save the sHARKs!
Yikes!!!
I hope you mean the PO had just pulled the wires.
Either that, or the the hole for the 'pulled' sensor had to be capped with a threaded plug. Otherwise you would be pumping fluid everytime you pushed the brake pedal. And sucking air/contaminents when you released the pedal.
Take a look at the back end of the drivers-side, front, inner-fenderwell. There should be a lot of brake fluid there from what you have described.
FIX IT OR LOSE IT!
John S.
Save the sHARKs!
03-06-2003 | 01:55 AM
#9
Thread Starter
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 9,010
Likes: 2
From: South Texas
There is alought of fluid there. No question that the resovore emptyed down the inner side of the engine bay. I stuck my head in there and looked from the top and bottm. Rember, I carry a heck of a road side kit, already includeing a trolly jack and supports, and 24 peice wrench set, a socket set, and soon to include a tow strap, that I'll never need.
Rember though, it's kinda weird. The level in the resevor is still at full. I stoped every so often to check and there were no noticeable change in the fluid level. Hum...
He PO just pulled the wire's plug off the sender. I'm going to have two new senders comeing my diriction just as fast as I can. Probably tomarow morning. Yeaks though, $125 a peice, and I need two to do it right...
Rember though, it's kinda weird. The level in the resevor is still at full. I stoped every so often to check and there were no noticeable change in the fluid level. Hum...
He PO just pulled the wire's plug off the sender. I'm going to have two new senders comeing my diriction just as fast as I can. Probably tomarow morning. Yeaks though, $125 a peice, and I need two to do it right...
03-06-2003 | 02:28 AM
#10
Banned
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,248
Likes: 4
From: Ft. Lauderdale FLORIDA
So let me get this str8-
You're like driving down the road, constant throttle setting and not takeing a curve or anything, and your car just starts going sideways~
V- I'm sure you've done this already, but I'll say this: Go to the nearest cheesy tire store and ask them to put your car on a lift. Tell them it sent you into a ditch for no reason- ask them to pull and push everything! Gawd, at this point it sounds like there is some gawd awefull problem underneath.
-As to brake problems, last year I was driving my Jetta airport car back from Miami to Orlando [220 miles, roughly the same as from Houston to Dallas] when it started to lose power for no reason. It couldnt maintan 55 mph on the highway, so I pulled over about 1/2 the way and looked at the engine. Nothing was obvious, but it ran much better...so I went up 55 mph US1 through all the towns that Henry Flagler created along the east coast of Florida.
30 miles up the road, just as Lucy, the infamous United Airlines FO and good friend called me...I decided to pull over. The brake pedal went to the floor~
The tire had rubbed a hole in the brake line. Why it killed all the brakes.....I don't know. I just fixed the problem, and eventually sold the car. The other time I've had problems with brakes was when HappyTruck had a leaky right wheel cylinder, and I was away for a month. I was driving the truck from the employee lot to home and pushed the brakes to take a 20 mph turn...they went to the floor, Happy went up on two wheels, the security guards stared...and a block later I pulled over. I discovered the reservoir empty; I had only rear end fluid in the truck's trunk. Yeah, I used rear end fluid to make the 3 mile drive home...
Since all my other time in vehicles with wheels either involves front wheel drive or turbine engines....I cannot say what is going on. A car that simply puts its owner in the ditch at a moments notice? Dude....somethings going on-
Man- be safe! Get that thing check-ed OUT!
N!
'85 S2 5 Speed!
You're like driving down the road, constant throttle setting and not takeing a curve or anything, and your car just starts going sideways~
V- I'm sure you've done this already, but I'll say this: Go to the nearest cheesy tire store and ask them to put your car on a lift. Tell them it sent you into a ditch for no reason- ask them to pull and push everything! Gawd, at this point it sounds like there is some gawd awefull problem underneath.
-As to brake problems, last year I was driving my Jetta airport car back from Miami to Orlando [220 miles, roughly the same as from Houston to Dallas] when it started to lose power for no reason. It couldnt maintan 55 mph on the highway, so I pulled over about 1/2 the way and looked at the engine. Nothing was obvious, but it ran much better...so I went up 55 mph US1 through all the towns that Henry Flagler created along the east coast of Florida.
30 miles up the road, just as Lucy, the infamous United Airlines FO and good friend called me...I decided to pull over. The brake pedal went to the floor~
The tire had rubbed a hole in the brake line. Why it killed all the brakes.....I don't know. I just fixed the problem, and eventually sold the car. The other time I've had problems with brakes was when HappyTruck had a leaky right wheel cylinder, and I was away for a month. I was driving the truck from the employee lot to home and pushed the brakes to take a 20 mph turn...they went to the floor, Happy went up on two wheels, the security guards stared...and a block later I pulled over. I discovered the reservoir empty; I had only rear end fluid in the truck's trunk. Yeah, I used rear end fluid to make the 3 mile drive home...
Since all my other time in vehicles with wheels either involves front wheel drive or turbine engines....I cannot say what is going on. A car that simply puts its owner in the ditch at a moments notice? Dude....somethings going on-
Man- be safe! Get that thing check-ed OUT!
N!
'85 S2 5 Speed!
03-06-2003 | 04:41 AM
#11
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 881
Likes: 0
From: Denmark
Viribus,
I think you should join a driving course - In Europe we can buy a one or two day driving course. (About 200 US$/day). these course is made on racing tracks, there we learn how the car react in all different situations like:
Braking - The elk test - Slalom - On icy surfaces: Normal turning - Front wheel sliding Rear wheel sliding - Four wheel sliding, and so on a whole day, starting with relatively low speed and then faster and faster until you loose the grab (and the car) and the small hair in you neck are raising!
That is extremely good - and makes fun! -Every time I have been there, I learnt that I still have a lot to learn - meaning TAKE CARE, you are driving a powerful car!
I think you may have similar facilities in The US
PS: Maybe your tires are are made of too hard rubber - Maybe your alignment is far out -Maybe you need some training - Then every thing in combination bring you to such dangerous situations - Not only for your self, but more important for other innocent people!
PS II: The funny and good think is, when you come to such a driving course in a Porsche, the trainers think: Aha...., a Porsche driver........We shall bring him out 'on deep water' and they do!
At the end of the day, you will be very exhausted and drive home with 'red ears', and the trainers are laughing and feeling they did a good job, and they did!
<img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
I think you should join a driving course - In Europe we can buy a one or two day driving course. (About 200 US$/day). these course is made on racing tracks, there we learn how the car react in all different situations like:
Braking - The elk test - Slalom - On icy surfaces: Normal turning - Front wheel sliding Rear wheel sliding - Four wheel sliding, and so on a whole day, starting with relatively low speed and then faster and faster until you loose the grab (and the car) and the small hair in you neck are raising!
That is extremely good - and makes fun! -Every time I have been there, I learnt that I still have a lot to learn - meaning TAKE CARE, you are driving a powerful car!
I think you may have similar facilities in The US
PS: Maybe your tires are are made of too hard rubber - Maybe your alignment is far out -Maybe you need some training - Then every thing in combination bring you to such dangerous situations - Not only for your self, but more important for other innocent people!
PS II: The funny and good think is, when you come to such a driving course in a Porsche, the trainers think: Aha...., a Porsche driver........We shall bring him out 'on deep water' and they do!
At the end of the day, you will be very exhausted and drive home with 'red ears', and the trainers are laughing and feeling they did a good job, and they did!
<img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
03-06-2003 | 06:27 PM
#15
Pro
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
From: Hotlanta
VU, I didn't mean you should have known, I just meant that on the off chance the officer did think you were armed, as in this case, getting out of the car and heading towards him doesn't look too good. Maybe it's diff where you are, but most every officer I've talked to in the South has said basically the same thing.