What motor oil do you use - Another survey
03-05-2003, 09:38 PM
#19
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1) 1896 928s Black/Black & 1987 928s4 Red/Black
2) Valvoline 10W-30
3) Good oil, But thinking of switching to Valvoline MaxLife for the 86. I'm at 139,000 miles on the 86 and 36,000 on the 87. Is this a good choice or should I save my money.
2) Valvoline 10W-30
3) Good oil, But thinking of switching to Valvoline MaxLife for the 86. I'm at 139,000 miles on the 86 and 36,000 on the 87. Is this a good choice or should I save my money.
03-06-2003, 12:12 AM
#20
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1. 1985 928S2 5 Speed
2. Castrol GTX 20w/50
3. I've always used Castrol with good results. Consumer Reports magazine did a test on motor oils some years ago and this stuff came up on top.
Synthetics: I don't use these in my cars since I usually change oil at three month intervals as opposed to 3000 miles. I've been told that motor oils do not really break down- they simply get dirty. What's more, a chemical/petroleum engineer once told me that unless you have a racing-spec engine or a high boost turbo, your engine really will not ever realize the advantages of synthetic oils.
From Smokey Yunick's "Power Secrets":
"The resistance to extreme operating temperature can be particularly useful in a racing engine. The best mineral-based oil I have ever seen will flash after 20-30 minutes at 320 degrees F, but a good synthetic oil can withstand operating temperatures as high as 500 degrees F for many hours and temperatures as high as 800-900 degrees F for brief periods."
Normy! point: We are not driving "racing engines".
Smokey:
"To be totally accurate, I feel there are really only two true synthesized oils, and the third type-which is often called a synthetic-can be more accurately described as a "reconstructed" mineral oil. These reconstructed oils are manufactured by breaking down a conventional mineral-oil compound and reassembling it with a special package of additives. This produces a pseudo-synthetic that is better than ordinary mineral-based engine oils-which must contain additives to improve their lubricity and durability-but I have never tested a reconstructed oil that is as good as a true top-quality synthetic.
Most of the commercially available automotive-grade synthetic oils are produced by this reconstruction process. These pseudo-synthetic oils are generally better than conventional mineral oils in a street-type engine, however, they have a rather "thin" viscosity and engines with a lot of running clearance will rattle noticeably when first started up.
The true synthetics we have tested can be divided into two general types: diesters and polyesters. Of the two types, diesters are somewhat cheaper to produce-but they are still very expensive-and unfortunately neither type is readily available in the automotive market. Polyesters are used widely in the aircraft industry, but the additive package used in these oils make them unsuitable for automotive use.
These synthetic lubricants are furmulated entirely from man-made chemicals, and they are normally much "stronger" than mineral oils because the molecules are locked together in a very strong chemical bond. In general, this makes them more resistant to temperature and pressue, but there is an important difference between a diester and a poyester chemical chain. When a diester reaches the point of destruction, the chemical bonds throughout the oil "unravel" very quickly, and all the oil in the engine comes apart like a series of falling dominoes. On the other hand, the bonding in a polyester chain is far superior. If conditions are such that a polyester begins to break apart, the destruction is localized, and the rest of the oil remains intact.
Another extremely critical limitation with diesters and all but some very rare polyesters is the retention of chemical additives used to reinforce the oil. These additives are a critical part of the formulation, and when they fall out of suspension, the lubricant becomes much less effective. This problem can, at times, be so bad that a synthetic oil may lose its extreme pressure capabilities, and this causes problems in areas where there is low unit contact and high mechanical loading. This additive fallout problem was particularly acute with early synthetics and as far as I know, it continues to be a major stumbling block with all synthesized engine oils."
Smokey Yunick was a WWII bomber pilot and mechanic, and eventually wound up building NASCAR engines for various race teams in Daytona Beach, Florida. He owned and ran his own garage called "The Best Damn Garage In Town", and flew his helicopter to work each morning. He passed away last year, but you should buy his book [Barnes & Noble usually has it] and read it!
SO: Diester, polyester, "reconstructed" oil...what is Mobil 1? I suspect this is indeed a reconstructed oil, barely better than Castrol. Does anyone know for sure?
Normy!
'85 S2 5 Speed
2. Castrol GTX 20w/50
3. I've always used Castrol with good results. Consumer Reports magazine did a test on motor oils some years ago and this stuff came up on top.
Synthetics: I don't use these in my cars since I usually change oil at three month intervals as opposed to 3000 miles. I've been told that motor oils do not really break down- they simply get dirty. What's more, a chemical/petroleum engineer once told me that unless you have a racing-spec engine or a high boost turbo, your engine really will not ever realize the advantages of synthetic oils.
From Smokey Yunick's "Power Secrets":
"The resistance to extreme operating temperature can be particularly useful in a racing engine. The best mineral-based oil I have ever seen will flash after 20-30 minutes at 320 degrees F, but a good synthetic oil can withstand operating temperatures as high as 500 degrees F for many hours and temperatures as high as 800-900 degrees F for brief periods."
Normy! point: We are not driving "racing engines".
Smokey:
"To be totally accurate, I feel there are really only two true synthesized oils, and the third type-which is often called a synthetic-can be more accurately described as a "reconstructed" mineral oil. These reconstructed oils are manufactured by breaking down a conventional mineral-oil compound and reassembling it with a special package of additives. This produces a pseudo-synthetic that is better than ordinary mineral-based engine oils-which must contain additives to improve their lubricity and durability-but I have never tested a reconstructed oil that is as good as a true top-quality synthetic.
Most of the commercially available automotive-grade synthetic oils are produced by this reconstruction process. These pseudo-synthetic oils are generally better than conventional mineral oils in a street-type engine, however, they have a rather "thin" viscosity and engines with a lot of running clearance will rattle noticeably when first started up.
The true synthetics we have tested can be divided into two general types: diesters and polyesters. Of the two types, diesters are somewhat cheaper to produce-but they are still very expensive-and unfortunately neither type is readily available in the automotive market. Polyesters are used widely in the aircraft industry, but the additive package used in these oils make them unsuitable for automotive use.
These synthetic lubricants are furmulated entirely from man-made chemicals, and they are normally much "stronger" than mineral oils because the molecules are locked together in a very strong chemical bond. In general, this makes them more resistant to temperature and pressue, but there is an important difference between a diester and a poyester chemical chain. When a diester reaches the point of destruction, the chemical bonds throughout the oil "unravel" very quickly, and all the oil in the engine comes apart like a series of falling dominoes. On the other hand, the bonding in a polyester chain is far superior. If conditions are such that a polyester begins to break apart, the destruction is localized, and the rest of the oil remains intact.
Another extremely critical limitation with diesters and all but some very rare polyesters is the retention of chemical additives used to reinforce the oil. These additives are a critical part of the formulation, and when they fall out of suspension, the lubricant becomes much less effective. This problem can, at times, be so bad that a synthetic oil may lose its extreme pressure capabilities, and this causes problems in areas where there is low unit contact and high mechanical loading. This additive fallout problem was particularly acute with early synthetics and as far as I know, it continues to be a major stumbling block with all synthesized engine oils."
Smokey Yunick was a WWII bomber pilot and mechanic, and eventually wound up building NASCAR engines for various race teams in Daytona Beach, Florida. He owned and ran his own garage called "The Best Damn Garage In Town", and flew his helicopter to work each morning. He passed away last year, but you should buy his book [Barnes & Noble usually has it] and read it!
SO: Diester, polyester, "reconstructed" oil...what is Mobil 1? I suspect this is indeed a reconstructed oil, barely better than Castrol. Does anyone know for sure?
Normy!
'85 S2 5 Speed
03-06-2003, 02:56 AM
#21
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It may be worth keeping in mind that "Power Secrets" was written 19 years ago. I'm not saying that what was writen about the oils is any different now than it was then, but that long does leave plenty of time for some stuff to maybe have changed. I mean I'd think that the petroleum engineers have to have been doing something over the last amost 20 years. If not, does anyone know how I can get a job as a petroleum engineer? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
03-06-2003, 08:51 AM
#22
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At one time I mentioned I had a noisy lifter. Well, after some additives and changing oil a few times, the noise was almost gone.
In the end the noise completely disappeared when I used:
Mobile 1 15w 50.
After this experience, that is all that will go in my Shark.
In the end the noise completely disappeared when I used:
Mobile 1 15w 50.
After this experience, that is all that will go in my Shark.
03-06-2003, 10:08 AM
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82 US Auto, Castrol GTX 20W-50. I change it often. Worry that synthetics would be more likely to weep past those old seals and gaskets, but then I'm probably destined to replace all of them at some point.
RAS
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03-06-2003, 04:05 PM
#27
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Looks like most folks like the Valvoline, Mobil and Castrol with weights varying in regions.
I used the Valvoline just to try it out. It worked great, so no need to change.
The F150 still runs great at 250K miles, because I changed the oil religiously every 3K-5K miles. Whether it was the Mobil 1, who knows.
I have seen these farmers with 50 ear old tractors that run like a top. Anytime I have asked them why they still run so great, they tell me oil changes and engine maintenance....go figure
Another important thing is the oil filter. On the F150, I have always used the FRAM PH8A. Some folks think FRAM sucks, but I disagree. I have the engine to show for it. I really don't think it runs like it does because of dumb luck.
I have always maintained my vehicles in decent fashion. Never had a major breakdown and my vehicles have lasted as long as I wanted to keep them...not because it had to retire to the junkyard.
I used the Valvoline just to try it out. It worked great, so no need to change.
The F150 still runs great at 250K miles, because I changed the oil religiously every 3K-5K miles. Whether it was the Mobil 1, who knows.
I have seen these farmers with 50 ear old tractors that run like a top. Anytime I have asked them why they still run so great, they tell me oil changes and engine maintenance....go figure
Another important thing is the oil filter. On the F150, I have always used the FRAM PH8A. Some folks think FRAM sucks, but I disagree. I have the engine to show for it. I really don't think it runs like it does because of dumb luck.
I have always maintained my vehicles in decent fashion. Never had a major breakdown and my vehicles have lasted as long as I wanted to keep them...not because it had to retire to the junkyard.
03-06-2003, 04:18 PM
#28
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...and speaking of filters. The website attached is from a guy that ripped a bunch apart (literally, check it out), and had some cool stuff to say. In fact you will be kinda amazed at what IS NOT inside these things.......almost scarey.
<a href="http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/" target="_blank">http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/</a>
One of the main things that caught my attention were the construction (rubber vs plastic valves), antiflow valve construction....thats a biggie for me, and the amount of filter material.
Some of the baseline Frams, yep, junk. Some of the more expensive Frams have much better internals. M1 filters are nice, WIX are excellent! The FRAM HP series are good also. While I'm out this weekend I plan to see what is available.
Bob
<a href="http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/" target="_blank">http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/</a>
One of the main things that caught my attention were the construction (rubber vs plastic valves), antiflow valve construction....thats a biggie for me, and the amount of filter material.
Some of the baseline Frams, yep, junk. Some of the more expensive Frams have much better internals. M1 filters are nice, WIX are excellent! The FRAM HP series are good also. While I'm out this weekend I plan to see what is available.
Bob
03-06-2003, 07:57 PM
#29
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Wow...a good read!
The FRAM I am using and was saying worked great, seems to be a POS according to this guy!
I always liked Mobil products, and I think I may spend the extra $7 for the Mobil 1 filter from now on.
It IS amazing though, based on his findings, that my crappy FRAM PH8A, helped my F150 last 250K.
Watch, I will use the Mobil 1 filter and my truck will die..LOL
Thanks for the post Bob!
The FRAM I am using and was saying worked great, seems to be a POS according to this guy!
I always liked Mobil products, and I think I may spend the extra $7 for the Mobil 1 filter from now on.
It IS amazing though, based on his findings, that my crappy FRAM PH8A, helped my F150 last 250K.
Watch, I will use the Mobil 1 filter and my truck will die..LOL
Thanks for the post Bob!
03-06-2003, 08:28 PM
#30
Racer
Thread Starter
Keith. I still think changing the oil and filter at close intervals works just fine. (aka the reason your's has lasted so long)....good old TLC.
I was using the same as you until recently on our other cars/trucks, and just went to their upgraded one for the better valve internals.
I really believe where the other stuff comes into play is when its under stress and with high oil volumes...etc.
Sometime I'll have to post this science experiment I helped my son do a few years back, comparing M1 to Mobil 10-30 non-syn. Kinda scarey when the temps were colder and down to freezing temps.
Bob
I was using the same as you until recently on our other cars/trucks, and just went to their upgraded one for the better valve internals.
I really believe where the other stuff comes into play is when its under stress and with high oil volumes...etc.
Sometime I'll have to post this science experiment I helped my son do a few years back, comparing M1 to Mobil 10-30 non-syn. Kinda scarey when the temps were colder and down to freezing temps.
Bob