Big Dave

Can this possibly be an 85? Did 85's come with the intake manifold pictured? I'm thinking this has to be 83 or older.

He's gonna have a hard time selling that banana to anyone who knows anything about 928s.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...item=597287640

Big Dave

At second glance, it looks like he's going to get at least $12,500 for it.

Jay Wellwood

Yeah...I would agree with the assesment of the intake - not an 85.

In as far as the price - after reading the descriptopn, he has some coin in it. I personally like the color.

Could he be shilling it in hopes some one will come along and ****** it at the last moment?

Big Dave

Too bad ebay doesn't have a section where potential bidders' questions and sellers' answers are posted. Granted, it could be abused but it could also protect those who don't know any better.

It does look like a lot of money was dumped in this car, but was it wisely spent? Look at that stereo! Kinda looks like a "flux capacitor" from Back to the Future. Ugh.

Donald

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "f" in his VIN should be for 1985. He did say (and the VIN reinforces this) that it is a euro-car. Well, he said "imported from europe" [sic], which I expect most were (& some indirectly).
I'l leave further comments as to the purity of mods to Dan.

Bryan

This car is probably an '85. To be more accurate, you can't use the engine to determine the year in this particular case. This car is an '85 Euro version with the 2-valve M28/21 engine used in the '84 to '86 Euro models. Conservatively rated at 310hp by the factory. So it's a pretty desireable powerplant.

The dual distributors are the tip off, as are the side repeaters on the fenders.

Bryan

UBoatCommander

Its a Euro so it won't be a 4 cam. Does it have dual distributors (I can't tell from the photo, doesn't really look like it - must be my eyes). Euro '84-'86 had the dual distributor setup. Someone needs to run the VIN to see.
If this guy gets in a wreck, that speaker box is going to kill anyone within a 50ft radius upon impact!
Don't know what 'tuned to RSR specs' means and would be nice to have a pic of the brake upgrade. Its not a 90+ dash as he says - no airbags - maybe he meant to say an 89+ pod but I think that mod would be tough to do. Good looking car, front end needs S4 bumper cover to math the rear - seats look nice!

UBC

Bryan

Hah! U Boat Commander. I get it. From Risky Business..."Who's the U-boat commander?" says the service manager at the Porsche/Audi dealership after they look at the 928 after it fell into lake Michigan.

Anyway, if you view the larger shot of the engine bay, you can make out the dual distributor setup. The VIN in the ad is also for a Euro...the "ZZZ" in it.

This car has been waaaaay too monkeyed with for me to find desireable at all. What color do you suppose it was originally? Although it's hard to tell - even the door jambs were done nicely. And that stereo junk...ugh. All those mods are just not my cup of tea. Find me a nice low mileage, all original, un-messed-with by the Feds or subsequent owners, nicely optioned '85 Euro in a nice dark color and now we're talking!

Bryan

Big Dave

Thanks for the education about the Euro model. I didn't realize that the engines looked so different.

I'm all for restoration of sharks so long as the completed project isn't too far from the "spirit" of the original design. That stereo ruins the whole thing for me....what's the use of a modified exhaust if you're deaf b/c of your stereo?

Bryan

Heh heh. I hear you on the stereo (no pun intended). My 928 had a massive stereo in it when I bought it. Fortunately they didn't alter the original speaker locations or cut anything up to install it (the original owner spent some SERIOUS coin on it). Unfortunately it wasn't working properly, and you could not carry any cargo or the spare because of the amps and woofers and other stuff in the luggage area. So out it came. I'm putting the components on Ebay soon. Probably recoup a couple grand by the time it's all gone.

The '84-'86 Euro engine looks sort of like the earlier 2 valve engines except for the dual distributors and the LH jetronic injection (versus CIS or flappy-door L-jet). The main differences are on the inside. High compression (10.2:1 I think), cams, larger intake runners, larger exhaust manifolds (the guy with the yellow car probably didn't know that the Euro exhaust manifolds are special and flow 99% as well as headers...hmmm I wonder what happened to them). The heads on the Euros are unique, the valve sizes maybe too. So outwardly it looks like the regular old 2-valve engine, but it will launch you into SPACE!

Bryan

John Struthers

Big Dave,
Yo! MO-Town we ain't out of the woods yet.
A couple of items to think about...
1. The Turn signals behind the front tires are indicative -from a variety of sources- and a additional light (Brake/Stop?) to the left of the left rear bumper cover would be another.
2.PatrickP-earlier post on this page was looking for a cold start valve on and for his 85'. A fellow poster said no such critter on the 85's. I remembered reading about it, there is a relationship to a leaking.defective one with HARD COLD STARTS and, or, a rough, hunting idle when the engine warms up. Point of fact was that while 928 Internatonal did not list one in its catalog for the 85's... Performance Automotion did - for the 2 valve 85's- so by inference I get the feeling there were at least two engine types for the 85 model year.
One listing I found does list the 85'S as being engined for Japan/USA with the 32valve,M28.43 engine code producing 288HP and the Euro S 2 valver pushing 300HP. Oddly the Euro S. First produced in 1980 was producing 300HP even then. Guru's and historians shed some light on this, please? you know... Heads, valves, cc's, compression ratios, exhaust, changes from year to year ... . Wether these were dual distributor models IS BEYOND MY CURRENT KNOWLEDGE!!! BUT!
3.Dave, After spending some of the dreaded quality time under the hood this weekend I noticed that the yellow sHARKs' engine compartment looked very near identical to my 82' Weissach. Not to **** off other posters (Bryan) I tracked the wires off of the clearly visible Dist.,eyeballed the pass. side of the compartment checked mine out from approx. the same angle. Eyeballed the yellow compartment with a large magnifying glass. My opinion is that unless they have started remote mounting the 2nd dist. in the spare tire well there is in fact no 2nd Dist. on this car.
4. He did offer the ZZZ VIN which is another Euro indicator - this from Jim Moorehouse-.
So, Euro? Probably . Rare Porche yellow? Like one of a kind rare if you are thinking what I'm thinking.
Personally, I like it - no accounting for taste-. I would not hesitate to sell the stereo. And let's face it you have to be a real slow driver in something this bright. Could not picture using it as a get away car after a bank job.
Bryan not smoking you on this, and you do have me curious -WHERE can I find one - about the euro spec engines, now!
John S. and Pattycakes

Donald

John's right-
single distributor in the euro-1985 (vide my earlier post re: VIN).
Engine specs are:
84-86 S -(Euro) 4.7L-16v M28/21 310hp 295ft/lbs 10.4:1 LH-Jetronic.

Jim Nowak

Bryan,

I have heard euro s owners say they picked up an additional 35 rear-wheel horsepower by adding the MSDS Jet Hot coated headers.

John,

The extra light on the euro bumper is a rear fog light.
The 1980-83 928 euro s produced 300 hp with CIS injection and a 10.0:1 4.7L engine & the 1984-1986 euro s produced 310 with 10.4:1 5.0L engine & LH-Jetronic.

Jim Nowak
5.4L
10.5:1
944 heads
J&E forged pistons
Electromotive engine management
Jet-Hot coated headers
Devek 2-valve cams
S4 front brakes and suspension
Euro s Extrued Honed intake
etc., etc.....

Jim Nowak

Correction,

84-86 euro s had the 4.7L.

Bryan

Ha ha ha. Is someone questioning my encyclopedic knowledge of Porsche minutia? Ok now you've gone and done it and I'm going to have to write a huge detailed post about this yellow car and why I am convinced it is an '85 Euro version with the 2-valve M28/21 engine.

1. VIN - WPOZZZ92ZFS8xxxxx. This is all you need, technically. The "F" stands for 1985 model year, and the 9, 2, and 8 are self explanatory, and the "Z"s mean European (rest of world) specs.

2. Look at the shot of the engine bay. Click on "supersize". Now look at the distributor carefully. Notice how you can see two distributor caps there? You are looking at the sides and one cap is in front of the other. That's how the dual distributor setup is on the M28/21 engine. One distributor for 4 of the cylinders is driven off the driver's side cam, and the second distributor is in the same little housing, driven by a small belt. So what at first glance appears to be the regular 8-pole single distributor is actually 2 4-cylinder distributors right next to each other (actually in the same aluminum housing). The 32 valve engine moved one distributor to the end of each cam.

- That is not a factory color for '85, but it could have been special ordered. Since I don't see any other yellow in the engine bay around the shock towers or firewall, I think this car was originally black or a dark color. I agree that it does look OK...lose the body kit and we'll talk.

- Note the big Euro headlights. Could have been added though, so only a minor clue.

- Supersize the interior shot. Note that down by the handbrake and fader, you can just barely see the edge of another control aft of the fader. That's the headlight vertical aim adjust. Euro versions of most cars with the powerful H4 lights have a system where you can aim the headlights down a tad to compensate for passengers and cargo. US versions don't have this control.

- The light that the Euros have in the rear bumper cover just to the left of the plate opening is a rear fog light. This car doesn't have one because the rear bumper cover was replaced with the (US) S4 bumper cover. Strangely, the rear fog light switch was also replaced. The rear fog light switch in the Euros is where the trip odometer reset button is in a US car.

- The side turn signals are another big clue, but they could have been added on.

- Check out the rear sidemarkers. Those aren't factory sidemarkers. A US version would have the factory sidemarkers back there. The Euros didn't have sidemarkers from the factory, and most got them added when they were imported. They were almost always some cheapo thing that doesn't look so hot. As is the case here.

Here's the story on the engines. First, I'll describe the evolution of the Euro engine. First there was the 4.5 liter engine with Bosch K-Jetronic, or CIS injection. In '80, they bumped it to 4.7 liters and 300hp with the CIS injection. It stayed this way until the '84 to '86 engines like the yellow car here has which got LH (hot wire air mass meter) Jetronic and minor revisions. So there's basically 3 engines for the Euros - 4.5/CIS, 4.7/CIS, and 4.7/LH. The US cars also had the 4.5 at first, then the 4.7. But at some point in the very early '80s, they dropped CIS on the US cars in favor of L-Jetronic with the flapper door or vane type air flow meter. The US cars kept the L-Jet FI until the 32 valve engine was introduced here in the '85 model year. Then in '87, convergence of the US and Euro engines in the 928S4. Were there any 2 valve engines in the '85 model year in the US? I don't know. I thought the changeover to 4-valve heads on the US version happened exactly with the '85 model year.

But it matters not. The engine in the yellow car is an M28/21 euro engine. As for the confusion about the cold start valve, that's just Performance "Your Part is Backordered" Products being confused. They sell parts for all known Porsches, Mercedes, Toyotas, etc. So they lack depth on certain things. 928 International does 928s only and knows that in '85 no 928 had CIS, so there is no cold start valve for an '85 928. Latest 928 that could have one is an '83 Euro.

I shall now sign off and head for bed comfortable in the knowledge that the amazing storehouse of information that is my brain has enlightened the world if just a little bit.

Bryan