Big AL's blocked radiator pics *wow*
06-30-2007, 11:30 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by Bret928
Personally I think the stock Behr radiator had an inherent week point because of the plastic end caps/tank design.
07-01-2007, 01:01 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by H2
Along this line, I've wondered about the various replacement radiators on the market and am not sure if they're "drop in" or require some custom bending of pipes to make them fit?
Harvey
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07-01-2007, 08:49 AM
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Will I have this oatmeal looking lime deposits gunked up in my heater core? How do I get the remaining crap out of the system before installing a new radiator? Can I use a hose to bypass the radiator when using a flushing agent?
Big AL in Virginia
84 928S EURO twin distributor monster with large valve cut outs in the pistons
Big AL in Virginia
84 928S EURO twin distributor monster with large valve cut outs in the pistons
07-01-2007, 11:39 AM
#34
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Al--
In general, you want to be real carefull with "flushing agents". The more serious ones are caustic, the less serious ones don't do much more than a a cup of Liquid Tide laundry detergent will. The serious ones work well but need to be --completely-- removed and maybe some neutralize in the block. Most instruct you to remove the thermostat too, to increase the flow/flush velocity, and you can't do that in your 928. Any place that the chemicals decide to hang out in residual deposits, you'll have some longer-term corrosion issues. This typically includes head gasket joints around water passages, among others.
I'm not real sure what you want to "flush out" once the radiator is replaced. The block itself is not going to have junk in it like your radiator does, although the heater core might. It has to do with the fact that calcium and other dissolved solids tend to precipitate out as temperature drops, and the places wher temperaure drops in the system are the radiator and heater core. The cold areas of the block are "flushed" through the two galley drains in the rear/sides.
For the heater core, you can jury-rig some old garden hose, hot water and a bucket to siphon a little radiator cleaner in and out, then flush it with fresh garden-hose water --gently-- to get the chems out. The risk here is that the heater core sees irregular flow at best in normal car use, and there may be deposits in there sealing up potential leaks. My advice would be to consider how much heater efficiency you are missing before you decide to chem clean it. The failure mode is leaks, fix is a replacement that involves removing the dash. Some folks love removing the dash; I don't.
In general, you want to be real carefull with "flushing agents". The more serious ones are caustic, the less serious ones don't do much more than a a cup of Liquid Tide laundry detergent will. The serious ones work well but need to be --completely-- removed and maybe some neutralize in the block. Most instruct you to remove the thermostat too, to increase the flow/flush velocity, and you can't do that in your 928. Any place that the chemicals decide to hang out in residual deposits, you'll have some longer-term corrosion issues. This typically includes head gasket joints around water passages, among others.
I'm not real sure what you want to "flush out" once the radiator is replaced. The block itself is not going to have junk in it like your radiator does, although the heater core might. It has to do with the fact that calcium and other dissolved solids tend to precipitate out as temperature drops, and the places wher temperaure drops in the system are the radiator and heater core. The cold areas of the block are "flushed" through the two galley drains in the rear/sides.
For the heater core, you can jury-rig some old garden hose, hot water and a bucket to siphon a little radiator cleaner in and out, then flush it with fresh garden-hose water --gently-- to get the chems out. The risk here is that the heater core sees irregular flow at best in normal car use, and there may be deposits in there sealing up potential leaks. My advice would be to consider how much heater efficiency you are missing before you decide to chem clean it. The failure mode is leaks, fix is a replacement that involves removing the dash. Some folks love removing the dash; I don't.
07-01-2007, 01:00 PM
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Dr BOB,
Thanks. I took out the two block drains this morning and flushed the crap out of the block with a garden hose. And then I pulled the return from the heater core and back flushed it. And then flushed the crap out of the block again. Had more hard oatmeal stuff come out. Thanks for the info about the chemicals. I had the block exposed to our winter here in Virginia. I had lime scale on the block but did not see the same scale when I put the heads back on. Which tells me the scale must have cracked up and fell off due to drying up and thermal expansion and contraction. Does this sound right? Afterwards, when I ran the engine for the first time this calcium/lime deposits began to collect in the radiator. Hence my overheating problem. I just want to get it the best I can. Reasonably that is, before I put a new radiator in.
Big AL from Virginia
84 928S EURO twin distributor monster with large valve cut outs in the pistons
Thanks. I took out the two block drains this morning and flushed the crap out of the block with a garden hose. And then I pulled the return from the heater core and back flushed it. And then flushed the crap out of the block again. Had more hard oatmeal stuff come out. Thanks for the info about the chemicals. I had the block exposed to our winter here in Virginia. I had lime scale on the block but did not see the same scale when I put the heads back on. Which tells me the scale must have cracked up and fell off due to drying up and thermal expansion and contraction. Does this sound right? Afterwards, when I ran the engine for the first time this calcium/lime deposits began to collect in the radiator. Hence my overheating problem. I just want to get it the best I can. Reasonably that is, before I put a new radiator in.
Big AL from Virginia
84 928S EURO twin distributor monster with large valve cut outs in the pistons
Originally Posted by dr bob
Al--
In general, you want to be real carefull with "flushing agents". The more serious ones are caustic, the less serious ones don't do much more than a a cup of Liquid Tide laundry detergent will. The serious ones work well but need to be --completely-- removed and maybe some neutralize in the block. Most instruct you to remove the thermostat too, to increase the flow/flush velocity, and you can't do that in your 928. Any place that the chemicals decide to hang out in residual deposits, you'll have some longer-term corrosion issues. This typically includes head gasket joints around water passages, among others.
I'm not real sure what you want to "flush out" once the radiator is replaced. The block itself is not going to have junk in it like your radiator does, although the heater core might. It has to do with the fact that calcium and other dissolved solids tend to precipitate out as temperature drops, and the places wher temperaure drops in the system are the radiator and heater core. The cold areas of the block are "flushed" through the two galley drains in the rear/sides.
For the heater core, you can jury-rig some old garden hose, hot water and a bucket to siphon a little radiator cleaner in and out, then flush it with fresh garden-hose water --gently-- to get the chems out. The risk here is that the heater core sees irregular flow at best in normal car use, and there may be deposits in there sealing up potential leaks. My advice would be to consider how much heater efficiency you are missing before you decide to chem clean it. The failure mode is leaks, fix is a replacement that involves removing the dash. Some folks love removing the dash; I don't.
In general, you want to be real carefull with "flushing agents". The more serious ones are caustic, the less serious ones don't do much more than a a cup of Liquid Tide laundry detergent will. The serious ones work well but need to be --completely-- removed and maybe some neutralize in the block. Most instruct you to remove the thermostat too, to increase the flow/flush velocity, and you can't do that in your 928. Any place that the chemicals decide to hang out in residual deposits, you'll have some longer-term corrosion issues. This typically includes head gasket joints around water passages, among others.
I'm not real sure what you want to "flush out" once the radiator is replaced. The block itself is not going to have junk in it like your radiator does, although the heater core might. It has to do with the fact that calcium and other dissolved solids tend to precipitate out as temperature drops, and the places wher temperaure drops in the system are the radiator and heater core. The cold areas of the block are "flushed" through the two galley drains in the rear/sides.
For the heater core, you can jury-rig some old garden hose, hot water and a bucket to siphon a little radiator cleaner in and out, then flush it with fresh garden-hose water --gently-- to get the chems out. The risk here is that the heater core sees irregular flow at best in normal car use, and there may be deposits in there sealing up potential leaks. My advice would be to consider how much heater efficiency you are missing before you decide to chem clean it. The failure mode is leaks, fix is a replacement that involves removing the dash. Some folks love removing the dash; I don't.
07-01-2007, 06:30 PM
#36
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Big Al,
With all that cleaning and back flushing, etc. do you think there's a chance you may have cleaned it up enough to get reasonably cool running now? Or are you just going to get a new radiator? I will be interested in your experience with this, either way.
Harvey
With all that cleaning and back flushing, etc. do you think there's a chance you may have cleaned it up enough to get reasonably cool running now? Or are you just going to get a new radiator? I will be interested in your experience with this, either way.
Harvey
07-01-2007, 09:10 PM
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AL,
Hows she running otherwise after the rebuild? I'm still waiting for my heads. Going on 4 months now
I'm going to go get them this week and tell them thanks for wasting my time. What was that place in manassas again?
Hows she running otherwise after the rebuild? I'm still waiting for my heads. Going on 4 months now
I'm going to go get them this week and tell them thanks for wasting my time. What was that place in manassas again?
07-01-2007, 09:56 PM
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It seems to be running great. I have been afraid to really get on it yet. But, it feels very strong. It is much louder now without cats and "85" style headers. Now, I am into a radiator, another grand.
The machine shop in Manassas is called C&C machine shop. Just make sure they take the exact same off both heads and the less the better. If not, it will mean your coolant crossover will not fit. They did a great job on my heads. The heads for our engines are pretty much your run of the mill 2 valve per cylinder heads. This machine shop does only heads and block work. They build 426 hemi race engines. They are no nonsense and the cost was the same price he quoted.
Big AL from Virginia
84 928S twin distributor monster with large valve cut outs in the pistons
The machine shop in Manassas is called C&C machine shop. Just make sure they take the exact same off both heads and the less the better. If not, it will mean your coolant crossover will not fit. They did a great job on my heads. The heads for our engines are pretty much your run of the mill 2 valve per cylinder heads. This machine shop does only heads and block work. They build 426 hemi race engines. They are no nonsense and the cost was the same price he quoted.
Big AL from Virginia
84 928S twin distributor monster with large valve cut outs in the pistons
07-02-2007, 02:20 PM
#39
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OK "Last night on the freeway coming home in rush hour traffice (it ws HOT) I was watching the needle as it climbed up the the 3/4 mark" In stop and go traffic the temperature is being controled by the FANS not the radiator and all S-4 have a computer brain which turns on off the fans based on temperature senders so if the senders no longer have the same resistance they tell the computer bad information. In addition ,the oil temperature regulator has two springs which direct the oil to flow through the cooler some have stated that changing the springs (thermostat) has helped them lower the temp by cooling the oil more quickly. And as stated the guages are not very accurate again because they work off resistance and that can change just from a poor contact anywhere in the system.
07-02-2007, 05:40 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by perrys4
I have had issues with this car before so maybe I am over cautious. I was expecting it to show on the guage that it was running significantly cooler. Sitting in rush hour traffice when its 90+ degrees isnt a place I want to break down or over heat. It has only been a short time so maybe i will get more comfortable with it if it proves to keep things cool. My car has always run 1-2 needle widths below the 3/4 mark, with the bad radiator. I was expecting the needle to sit at the half way point with the new one.
07-02-2007, 05:48 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by perrys4
I got my C&R radiator in a couple weeks ago and am a little diappointed in that it doesn't seem to run any cooler than the Behr did and it was the original. Last night on the freeway coming home in rush hour traffice (it ws HOT) I was watching the needle as it climbed up the the 3/4 mark, a place that makes me uncomfortable. I know you cant tell exactly how hot it is running by the needle but I thought the new rad would make a noticable difference. I was afraid to turn on the A/C. Yes my fans work. Just some insight if you are considering a new rad. It is a work of art visually.
You might consider getting/borrowing an IR temp gun and checking the actual temp. If you're not getting over, say 95°C, all is well.
Regardless, it's good to get a reality check, find out what actual temp corresponds to the markings on the gauge.
07-02-2007, 06:49 PM
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This is Andrew's post on oil pressure ..."What's interesting is that from 0 - ~3bar, the analog gage seems to be pretty accurate, but any higher than 3bar and the analog gage doesn't keep up. You can clearly see that I'm running 4.1bar, but the gage only shows about 3.5bar.
So, if you have a digital dash, you should be able to verify your gage's accuracy using this method. Have fun!
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Andrew Olson - 91 928 GT TS 5-Speed - Guards Red/Classic Gray" ................ .Which shows that there can be a 15 % ERROR between the digital read out and the old faithful gauge that much variance on the temp could be what ?? maybe 25-30 degrees ??
So, if you have a digital dash, you should be able to verify your gage's accuracy using this method. Have fun!
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Andrew Olson - 91 928 GT TS 5-Speed - Guards Red/Classic Gray" ................ .Which shows that there can be a 15 % ERROR between the digital read out and the old faithful gauge that much variance on the temp could be what ?? maybe 25-30 degrees ??
07-02-2007, 09:09 PM
#43
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Nice to know about annealing tabs. Thanks
Oatmeal? Was the stuff hard or soft? Scale is hard, essentially new-made stone. Oatmeal would be soft.
Oatmeal? Was the stuff hard or soft? Scale is hard, essentially new-made stone. Oatmeal would be soft.
07-03-2007, 09:04 AM
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It looks like oatmeal. It is very hard. Did you ever let oatmeal sit out in a bowl? It gets as hard as cement. Mine does.
Big Al from Virginia
84 928S EURO twin distributor monster with large valve cut out in the pistons
Big Al from Virginia
84 928S EURO twin distributor monster with large valve cut out in the pistons
Originally Posted by Fogey1
Nice to know about annealing tabs. Thanks
Oatmeal? Was the stuff hard or soft? Scale is hard, essentially new-made stone. Oatmeal would be soft.
Oatmeal? Was the stuff hard or soft? Scale is hard, essentially new-made stone. Oatmeal would be soft.
07-03-2007, 11:21 AM
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This morning I flushed the block with Distilled water (a bit expensive as a flush). I did this to help displace and dilute the tap water flushing I did over the last couple of days
Then I chased the threads on the block drains. Used new sealing rings and permatex high temp thread sealant on the drain plugs. No problems installing and tightening.
Chased the block with a gallon of distilled water. Plugged all orifices until I get a new radiator.
Any supplier that are willing to comp me a new radiator until I get the cash are welcome. Don't like to use credit on any of my car stuff. If so, I will post your companies name on my easel at PCA events.
Big AL from Virginia
84 928S Euro twin distributor monster with large valve cut outs in the pistons
Then I chased the threads on the block drains. Used new sealing rings and permatex high temp thread sealant on the drain plugs. No problems installing and tightening.
Chased the block with a gallon of distilled water. Plugged all orifices until I get a new radiator.
Any supplier that are willing to comp me a new radiator until I get the cash are welcome. Don't like to use credit on any of my car stuff. If so, I will post your companies name on my easel at PCA events.
Big AL from Virginia
84 928S Euro twin distributor monster with large valve cut outs in the pistons
