Tony

Ok...igntion stuff now with the EZK. I got it wired in tonight and went for a very short local drive...too much traffic to really mess around.

No faults displayed which is good!

I cant seem to get the selector display to function correctly in my car. The only way i can get it to show its in "D/3/2" is to put the selector in 2. If its in D or 3 the display doesnt move. As a side note my PRND32 shift lights in the pod have never worked since i bought the car....probably a related issue?

What "coding" on the coding plug should i see with the maps. The only way i can get the blue cross to display is with "98 octane cat"...for both idle and cruise? I have an 87 S4 ( cats removed..)..but i thought it is coded 91 cat at the factory??

Any other map than that i got " Warning-this map is not being used by the ECU"???

I only did two hard runs from a stop, and that was on the freeway on ramp. After feathering the throttle a bit, i got it to hook up and put my foot to the floor. I managed t produce 24 knocks on one run...and 22 on an other...If i recall they stopped at that number even though i still had my foot in it..i could see timing being pulled from the cyclinders as i glanced over quick.

To me it sounds like the knock system is working as advertised.??

This ignition timing stuff is way new to me..I understand how it all works, but how to optimze it and tune it for the set up i have and the conditions around here im really pulling at straws i think.

I plan on going out to the same stretch of road i did my other WOT run so i can at least can see how the igntion maps/knock counts will interact with my current fuel mapping and boost.

Any good tips in all this...like
some timing adjustments for idle cold..idle hot...etc etc.... and What things should i be looking for in general?

Like i said...this is day one, so im sure i will have more questions.

The St EZK version was just as easy as the LH to hook up

Koenig928

Hey Tony,

Glad to see the ST working for you. I'm by no means an expert on EZK tuning, but here's some timing maps on the Koenig when I was playing around with it. See how yours compares with the amount of knocks and timing retard. From experience, I can say that you will get slightly varying results from run to run for the knock count.

The second pic is stock S4 timing, knock starts to creep in around 4700rpm.

The first pic shows when I increased ignition advance a few degrees (a bit too much), the EZK reacts by retarding timing accordingly to the knock count.

I'll have to dig further for some other tuning runs on the laptop tomorrow.

John Speake

Hello Tony,
The issue with the P/D/2/3 must be related to your gear display problem, there's a wiring conenctor for the g'box switch near the spare wheel ?

98 octane is RON, no problem for you. If you are running closed loop with O2 sensor then that cat map is correct.

When you hit WOT the blue marker will move to the WOT rpm based cat map.

Rather than count the total number of knocks, data log knock on each cylinder plus load, rpm etc., do a WOT run and then see which cyl are knocking. Back off igntion in the parts of the load /rpm map that are giving the knocks. A couple of degrees at a time, repeat process.

Aim to get where you just get to the point at which there are no knocks.

Louie928

Not meaning to butt in here, but I'll butt in anyway. The EZ mapping is a tad bit different than LH mapping. When you go to WOT, the EZ uses an entirely different map as John said. The WOT EZ timing map isn't one that lays over the base map like the LH WOT enrichment map. The WOT EZ map stands on its own, and has no load values like the base map does. What's in the normal timing map doesn't affect the WOT timing map at all. On SC engines, and especially TS type, it is possible to get enough boost to cause detonation at less than WOT where the normal timing map is in play.

What that means is you really need to tune both maps. One at WOT and the other at less than WOT. I made a throttle stop I can bolt to the throttle quadrant bracket that limits throttle movement so I can open the throttle and it'll stop before it activates the WOT switch. Another alternative is to snip the WOT switch wire to the EZ so you stay on the regular base map all the time. The loss of WOT input to the EZ on an auto trans car may not activate the spark retard on shift, but I can't remember for sure on that. Then tune the base map at progressively more throttle openings and work your way through the load rows throughout the RPM range that way. You still need the adjustable throttle stop so you can exactly repeat successive part throttle runs. The load value will change with RPM with a fixed throttle position so it's best to log load too so you know what RPM/Load cell was in use when the knock occured. Timing tuning is quite tedious as compared to mixture tuning, but the ST knock indication, and log for each cylinder makes it about as easy as possible.

Tony

Thanks guys.
Or i can fill my car up with 100oct and forget about it all

eh..i dont think so.

John Speake

Tony, Louie has explained much better than I did, but it may also be helpful to read the ST User Manual which is available by download from my website, if you don't have the CD-ROM that came with the SharkTuner.

Keep us up to speed on your progress !

BrianG

How about Jet-A !!!

Kevin Michael

Off topic, but does any one know where I can get a chip for my 87 EZK to be compatible with the JDS spanner?

PorKen

Removing the WOT terminal at the EZ-F/K connector is how civilized people stay in the cruise map.

Louie928

You can order them from Mouser, Digikey, or most any electronics supply place.

I ordered mine from Mouser.
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Product...U7njzBhw%3d%3d

The part number is a M27C256B-12F6 and you can search on that. The manufacturer is ST. A similar number is M27C256B-12F. The difference between the -12F and -12F6 is that the operating temperature of the -12F is 0C to +85C, and the -12F6 is from -40C to +85C. Since I wanted the engine to reliably start/run at below freezing temps, I used the -12F6 style.

Louie

Louie928

Very elegant solution. So simple even a "Cave man" could do it.

John Speake

Anyone with a SharkTuner could blow one for you.

Tony

This is the throttle stop i made today. Works quite well! Caraige bolt, some fender washers and a 1/4 inch coupling that i can adjust to change the "stop"

Question...and it may sound stupid, but is the knock count the number of knocks the engine is hearing period OR...the number of knocks that after a reduction in timing EZK cant get rid off?
Im asuming its just the knocks the engine hears period.


Anyway, this is how i did a few runs today.
i have the ST set up to log load, rpm, knock..etc...basically everything.
I trigger it at 2000 rpm.
I get the car in 1st...manually shift to 2nd keeping the revs below 2k.
Once at appx 1800-1900 rpm i floor it..foot to the "stop" and run it to redline in second lettting the ST log and the EZK make what ever timing corrections it may have to do.

When done i look at the numeric data...go down the knock column until i see the first knock registered. I then make sure the load was 100% and then look at what RPM it occured. With RPM and LOAD i go to the ignition map and pull out timing in that field....i was pulling 6.4 degrees in one cell.

I believe it was said that you pull timing until knock is no longer registered correct????
...below is the stock ignition map with an added red box(100% load) at the bottom showing the timing after some had been pulled at each RPM increment. The green box shows the amount pulled. This set up gave me no knocks in the end...so i would assume that this is OK. I will say that i didnt spend the time and pull 1 degree here 1 degree there. I usually pulled 3' right off the bat and made another run..reviewed then adjust again, or moved onto another field if that "cell" didnt show knock. In other words...if i didnt get knock at 3' retard..i didnt go back and try 2...or 1..etc. Like Louie said this could be a very tedious process to do it right. I can see consistancy with each run is a good thing to try and accomplish.

Over a period off 11 runs doing this down the local on ramp...i can now go from a stop in first.. to redline in second with out a single knock...(not at WOT either due to the throttle stop). Next week i hope to go out to my little stretch of mtn road where i did the fuel mapping. Its perfect for doing all of this.
Ive really never messed with igntion timing before so this is a pretty steep learning curve. The ST works though and its pretty cool to see tangible results after you mess with the map.

Is this i line with what others have done/found?
thanks.

Louie928

Hi Tony,
Really interesting. Do I understand that you reached 100% load on the cruise map with the throttle stop set for less than where the WOT switch activated? If so then leave your WOT switch connected to the EZ so you can have a map for when the throttle is actually at WOT. If you pulled timing at 100% load, then go to less throttle opening and check again for 90% load, etc. You'll get more power with timing set so you do get a few knock retard indications on some cylinders. You'll find some cyls knocking and others won't be knocking. If you set timing so there are no knocks at all, some cyls could use more advance and still not knock. Hard to explain, but if you have timing set so 2 cyls show knock retard and 6 don't, that setting will get you more power than if you retarded timing more so no cyls were knocking. With boost there is more chance for over stressing so you shouldn't get too close to the edge either.

Maybe John can comment here, but it looks like you are maxing out the SuperMAF. That's quite incredible.

I don't quite know what data prameter you were looking at for your question regarding knock indications. I'll assume it was checking retard on each cylinder which is the one to look at. I think to answer your question, the knock indication you see is the timing retard the EZ puts in due to sensing a knock. If just a light knock it'll retard 3 degrees for a short while. If it senses another knock the next firing cycle, it'll retard 3 more degrees with a longer recovery time. If there is still a knock sensed (on that cylinder) it'll pull 3 more degrees up to a total of 9 degrees. That's why the knock data chart is sometimes stepped. The recovery time back to no retard timing can be several seconds. That's why it is important to tune the EZ for minimal knocks. You see that you got knocks from 1900 to 3400, then no knocks from 3400 to 4400 and really 4900 where you had to pull significant timing. Had you not pulled timing in the 1900 to 3400 range and the EZ was pulling timing for you due to sensing knocks, the timing retard would have continued right through the 1000 to 1500 rpm area where you had to pull no timing and you'd have had a power dip there due to the unneccesarily retarded timing. The EZ doesn't recover immediately.

Louie

John Speake

Hello Tony, welcome to the world of EZK SharkTuning !

Louie has covered many of the important points, as he says it is better to monitor the knock count on each cylinder rather than just look at the total knock count.

Your question on knock counts - the two options you list are in fact the same thing. The EZK can't "hide" knocks so it tellls it as it is. Whatever the sensors pick up, the EZK processes to distinguish knocks from the background noise. These are the knocks displayed. If knock continues on a cylinder, the EZK will keep stepping back the igntion in 3 deg steps on that individual cylinder until the knocks cease.

As Louie originally suggested, to do a full remp you should also adjust your throttle stop to limit the load to lower values, and at least check for knocks in the mid range at (say) 50% and 75%. load values.

I usually leave the worst knocking cylinder with up to about 5 knocks in a single WOT run. It's a fail safe system because of the knock control system. The danger with high boost, and not remapping the EZK is that with high boost you can use up all the 9 degree max retard of the stock system, and then you are not protected automatically anymore. Using the old rule of thumb, pull 1 deg for each lb of boost, you get a rough idea.....

What boost are you running ?

I am also surprised that you are hitting the 100% value, I need to check back on that.

But essentially it is giving the same result as if you were on the WOT ( rpm only ) map.

Did you fix the D-2-3-4 issue ?