928: Stock vs. Modernized (Long)
05-25-2007, 11:06 AM
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928: Stock vs. Modernized (Long)
Traditionalists like the virgin, totally stock look of their 928s. However, many of us are drivers and not concours dudes and like to take the absolutely timeless body style of the 928 and add modern features and creature comforts that help bring it somewhat more in line with today's sports cars.
For starters, (for me) these include:
Wheels: More modern looking wheels that go well but don't look out of place. The more modern Porsche wheels may fit the bill but a clean set of Design 90s really help too...I feel. Also, 17", 18" and (for a few) 19" wheels are possible to add.
Steering Wheel: I think the stock 928 steering wheel is dated and really old looking. Momo has some nice modern designs that make the 928 keep up with the times.
Mirrors: Stock mirrors on the older 928s look, well...rectangular. The more modern mirrors of the GTS really help bring the car into today's standards.
Drink Holders: If done tastefully, you can have the essential advantage of today's cars. I like the Mercedes Benz folding cupholder.
Remote Locking: I don't have it yet, but I like it on the more modern cars. It is possible to add to the 928.
Radio: Some spend lots of money on sound systems but I feel that a minimum requirement is at least a CD player, preferably with iPod input. While it doesn't have the iPod capability I really like the Porsche CDR-210. It "looks" right for a Porsche and works well. It comes from Boxers and say PORSCHE right on the radio. However, the CDR-220 apparently has the iPod input capability...BUT the faceplate is really hard to read in the 928...so it's an extra $100 but to get that fixed. In the 928 dash, it's hard to find a radio that doesn't look "ricey"
Exhaust: Stock will be fine for most people but if a car doesn't at least sound like a tough sports car, I discount it as being impotent. Several good options here, from real cheap to not so cheap.
There's not much you can do to make the 928 body any more beautiful other than wax, but some have made modifications and added new style splitters, panels, etc. On this, I'm more traditional.
Suspension: There are lots of options here...but a slight lowering looks cool. Also, better and more modern handling is possible
Brakes: 928s tend to have cool brakes (no pun intended) but the later cars and aftermarket have it. Drilled, larger Brembos with contrasting paint, wheels that show the brakes and large rotors, etc. All can be nice modern touches.
Engine: The sky's the limit here but the recent 200mph triumph at the Nevada open road race should tell the world something.....Working with the engine and suspension you truly can have a stunning world class car that both looks good and performs better than the more modern cars. Sucks for modern sports car owners to have their butts kicked by a 20-year old car!
Seats: There are options but I can't think of any that can surpass the 928 Sport Seat for comfort and practicality. However, adding modern leather (think Champagne) that has fancy stitching goes a long way to making the interior look as good as most modern sports cars.
There are some engineering changes that can make a difference but these largely go unnoticed by the general public (until you get on the track).
Tires: Performance wise there are lots of options available but most go unnoticed by all but the informed. Some tread designs look cool, performance varies.
Road Noise: If I have one pet-peeve it's Porsche Road/Tire noise. I've never been able to find a reasonably quiet tire, in spite of all well-intentioned suggestions. In view of this, I've purchased a boat-load of two different kinds of insulation that, once installed, I hope will let me hear my exhaust better. BTW, my 2002 Audi Quattro TT is worse in this department.
Wheels and paint make the largest differences. You can take a POS car and put great wheels on it and the car will become interesting. However, really good paint is essential to having a car to be proud of. Porsche stock paint is great but getting old. Tradition aside, a well-done new paint job can make a car look great. Good paint isn't cheap though and costs as much as many of the cars themselves.
I'm sure there are things you like in your newer cars that are probably possible in the 928.
I don't want to offend anyone but as I drive anywhere in the country I see lots of older Ricer Z cars. Most are in poor shape but many are still chugging down the road. Many are not kept up and look like POS. However, you can paint them, change the wheels, and do any number of things to try and make them look "modern" and they still look awkward and out of place (to me). However, this is NOT the case with the 928. It doesn't take much of anything to have a 928 that will catch attention and you can be proud of. However, you can have both the old an the new. Reliability of a new car vs an older car is another topic of some difference of opinion. But a well-cared for 928 can have both good looks and reliability....but not a warranty. The best solution of all may be to have a Ferrari AND a 928 sitting in your garage. Let's start with the 928.
I listed the obvious updates than can make a difference. What did I miss?
Harvey
Porschista
For starters, (for me) these include:
Wheels: More modern looking wheels that go well but don't look out of place. The more modern Porsche wheels may fit the bill but a clean set of Design 90s really help too...I feel. Also, 17", 18" and (for a few) 19" wheels are possible to add.
Steering Wheel: I think the stock 928 steering wheel is dated and really old looking. Momo has some nice modern designs that make the 928 keep up with the times.
Mirrors: Stock mirrors on the older 928s look, well...rectangular. The more modern mirrors of the GTS really help bring the car into today's standards.
Drink Holders: If done tastefully, you can have the essential advantage of today's cars. I like the Mercedes Benz folding cupholder.
Remote Locking: I don't have it yet, but I like it on the more modern cars. It is possible to add to the 928.
Radio: Some spend lots of money on sound systems but I feel that a minimum requirement is at least a CD player, preferably with iPod input. While it doesn't have the iPod capability I really like the Porsche CDR-210. It "looks" right for a Porsche and works well. It comes from Boxers and say PORSCHE right on the radio. However, the CDR-220 apparently has the iPod input capability...BUT the faceplate is really hard to read in the 928...so it's an extra $100 but to get that fixed. In the 928 dash, it's hard to find a radio that doesn't look "ricey"
Exhaust: Stock will be fine for most people but if a car doesn't at least sound like a tough sports car, I discount it as being impotent. Several good options here, from real cheap to not so cheap.
There's not much you can do to make the 928 body any more beautiful other than wax, but some have made modifications and added new style splitters, panels, etc. On this, I'm more traditional.
Suspension: There are lots of options here...but a slight lowering looks cool. Also, better and more modern handling is possible
Brakes: 928s tend to have cool brakes (no pun intended) but the later cars and aftermarket have it. Drilled, larger Brembos with contrasting paint, wheels that show the brakes and large rotors, etc. All can be nice modern touches.
Engine: The sky's the limit here but the recent 200mph triumph at the Nevada open road race should tell the world something.....Working with the engine and suspension you truly can have a stunning world class car that both looks good and performs better than the more modern cars. Sucks for modern sports car owners to have their butts kicked by a 20-year old car!
Seats: There are options but I can't think of any that can surpass the 928 Sport Seat for comfort and practicality. However, adding modern leather (think Champagne) that has fancy stitching goes a long way to making the interior look as good as most modern sports cars.
There are some engineering changes that can make a difference but these largely go unnoticed by the general public (until you get on the track).
Tires: Performance wise there are lots of options available but most go unnoticed by all but the informed. Some tread designs look cool, performance varies.
Road Noise: If I have one pet-peeve it's Porsche Road/Tire noise. I've never been able to find a reasonably quiet tire, in spite of all well-intentioned suggestions. In view of this, I've purchased a boat-load of two different kinds of insulation that, once installed, I hope will let me hear my exhaust better. BTW, my 2002 Audi Quattro TT is worse in this department.
Wheels and paint make the largest differences. You can take a POS car and put great wheels on it and the car will become interesting. However, really good paint is essential to having a car to be proud of. Porsche stock paint is great but getting old. Tradition aside, a well-done new paint job can make a car look great. Good paint isn't cheap though and costs as much as many of the cars themselves.
I'm sure there are things you like in your newer cars that are probably possible in the 928.
I don't want to offend anyone but as I drive anywhere in the country I see lots of older Ricer Z cars. Most are in poor shape but many are still chugging down the road. Many are not kept up and look like POS. However, you can paint them, change the wheels, and do any number of things to try and make them look "modern" and they still look awkward and out of place (to me). However, this is NOT the case with the 928. It doesn't take much of anything to have a 928 that will catch attention and you can be proud of. However, you can have both the old an the new. Reliability of a new car vs an older car is another topic of some difference of opinion. But a well-cared for 928 can have both good looks and reliability....but not a warranty. The best solution of all may be to have a Ferrari AND a 928 sitting in your garage. Let's start with the 928.
I listed the obvious updates than can make a difference. What did I miss?
Harvey
Porschista
Last edited by H2; 05-25-2007 at 11:24 AM.
05-25-2007, 11:37 AM
#2
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Harv,
You hit most of the nails on the head. I think you're right on track.
I think the only other obvious I can think of is the shifter on both the 5 speed and the autos. The autos look like $%&T all the way up to the GTS models.
Probably ok in it's day but way outdated now. Cool modern appointments available for them now.
GTS's 5 spds looked and shifted pretty good from the factory, S4's are marginal at best, (Gt's a little better) and the OB's foggettaboutit!!!! On the 5 speeds-cut down the shifter or put a short throw shifter on it and cover it with a GTS ****. Now that is the bomb!!!
You hit most of the nails on the head. I think you're right on track.
I think the only other obvious I can think of is the shifter on both the 5 speed and the autos. The autos look like $%&T all the way up to the GTS models.
Probably ok in it's day but way outdated now. Cool modern appointments available for them now.
GTS's 5 spds looked and shifted pretty good from the factory, S4's are marginal at best, (Gt's a little better) and the OB's foggettaboutit!!!! On the 5 speeds-cut down the shifter or put a short throw shifter on it and cover it with a GTS ****. Now that is the bomb!!!
05-25-2007, 01:07 PM
#3
Under the Lift
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Nice list, H2.
I would add:
Lighting updates: The LED instrument pod and interior light kits. Also, the clear lens updates. I've done the front sidemarker lenses and put in amber LEDs, and the front turn signals. There is something to be said for monochroming the tail light lenses. H4s in the headlights, if not HID, are a substantial improvement over DOT H5s. And other pimping, like illuminated threshold letters, LED illumination behind the door handles are nice touches.
Other interior updates: The Jager and Hooked on Cars kits (aluminum threshold plates, all kinds of wood/metal interior panels). The stock steering wheel is rather dated looking [EDIT: Oh, I see you did discuss the steering wheel]. The 930 or some of the Momo wheels are a definite modernizing improvement. I like my Momo Club 4 so much, I bought a second one (they are NLA) in case the first wears out. The AT shifter is rather funky with its accordian pleat boot and T-handle. I replaced that right away.
I fully agree the 928 seats are the best car seats ever. I just removed them from my 89 to put in some racing seats. Even at 180K miles, my original seats still look new and are like works of art sitting on my garage floor. Kudos to Recaro and Porsche for these seats!
I would add:
Lighting updates: The LED instrument pod and interior light kits. Also, the clear lens updates. I've done the front sidemarker lenses and put in amber LEDs, and the front turn signals. There is something to be said for monochroming the tail light lenses. H4s in the headlights, if not HID, are a substantial improvement over DOT H5s. And other pimping, like illuminated threshold letters, LED illumination behind the door handles are nice touches.
Other interior updates: The Jager and Hooked on Cars kits (aluminum threshold plates, all kinds of wood/metal interior panels). The stock steering wheel is rather dated looking [EDIT: Oh, I see you did discuss the steering wheel]. The 930 or some of the Momo wheels are a definite modernizing improvement. I like my Momo Club 4 so much, I bought a second one (they are NLA) in case the first wears out. The AT shifter is rather funky with its accordian pleat boot and T-handle. I replaced that right away.
I fully agree the 928 seats are the best car seats ever. I just removed them from my 89 to put in some racing seats. Even at 180K miles, my original seats still look new and are like works of art sitting on my garage floor. Kudos to Recaro and Porsche for these seats!
Last edited by Bill Ball; 05-25-2007 at 03:47 PM.
05-25-2007, 01:37 PM
#4
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You mentioned exhaust and steering wheel, but did not seem to mention the performance benefit of either.
And nice exhaust should boost your hp a bit (and some a lot), and a smaller 350mm steering wheel will dramatically change the feel and responsiveness of the car.
I think the 350mm steering wheel is one of the most underrated mods you can do to the car.
The stock steering wheel feels like one of those old Mercedes bus sized steering wheels to me.
And nice exhaust should boost your hp a bit (and some a lot), and a smaller 350mm steering wheel will dramatically change the feel and responsiveness of the car.
I think the 350mm steering wheel is one of the most underrated mods you can do to the car.
The stock steering wheel feels like one of those old Mercedes bus sized steering wheels to me.
Last edited by F451; 05-25-2007 at 02:52 PM.
05-25-2007, 01:53 PM
#5
Road Noise Cure (pics)
I agree that road noise is a real bear in our cars.
My diesel Excursion had a similar problem made worse by a chipped engine (read timing advance - this on hydraulically controlled injectors - ouch) and low restriction exhaust.
I did to the 928 the same as I did to the truck - Cascade VB sound insulation. It's cheaper than Dynamat, better than FatMat and/or anything you find at Home Depot or JCWhitney
.
You'll get the biggest noise reduction by doing the doors; both outer and inner doorskins. Cascade has a self adhesive product that you cut into strips & press into place wherever/however you can reach it. 928 doors actually have pretty good clearance inside if you remove the window motor & rods.
The roof pillar belt and speaker cutouts form an 'echo chamber' that amplify road noise into the cabin - MAJOR noise culprit. Road noise is transmitted up through the hollow pillar from the rear wheel well and underside/rockers. I removed the interior rear quarter panels, applied insulation inside and on the pillar, then filled the hollow with cotton fiber insulation (product was highly recommended by the owner of Cascade Audio).
I used the lead-sandwiched product on the floor, trans tunnel, inner firewall, rear seat pans and rear deck. I did the spare cover underside and spare floor with the self adhesive stuff. Rear quarters already have about 3/4 inch of foam, so anything additional is an option.
Wheel well panels were removed & sprayed on both sides with the Cascade spray on - really neat stuff! I packed cotton insulation into all spaces between the wheel well plastic panels & sheet metal.
With the new Bridgestones, Baby Blue is quiet as a Lincoln...CD/Stereo sounds MUCH better, especially the highs. Beware - if you undertake a similar task, you will begin to notice every creak and crack your vinyl/plastic/leather interior makes. Do NOT use a silicone or teflon-based lubricant between the panels and metal. It could take the finish off leather, vinyl, etc. Use WD40 or something that smells better.
BTW, project cost around $400 for materials, lots of my hours - but then I work cheap!
Hawkeyes
My diesel Excursion had a similar problem made worse by a chipped engine (read timing advance - this on hydraulically controlled injectors - ouch) and low restriction exhaust.
I did to the 928 the same as I did to the truck - Cascade VB sound insulation. It's cheaper than Dynamat, better than FatMat and/or anything you find at Home Depot or JCWhitney
. You'll get the biggest noise reduction by doing the doors; both outer and inner doorskins. Cascade has a self adhesive product that you cut into strips & press into place wherever/however you can reach it. 928 doors actually have pretty good clearance inside if you remove the window motor & rods.
The roof pillar belt and speaker cutouts form an 'echo chamber' that amplify road noise into the cabin - MAJOR noise culprit. Road noise is transmitted up through the hollow pillar from the rear wheel well and underside/rockers. I removed the interior rear quarter panels, applied insulation inside and on the pillar, then filled the hollow with cotton fiber insulation (product was highly recommended by the owner of Cascade Audio).
I used the lead-sandwiched product on the floor, trans tunnel, inner firewall, rear seat pans and rear deck. I did the spare cover underside and spare floor with the self adhesive stuff. Rear quarters already have about 3/4 inch of foam, so anything additional is an option.
Wheel well panels were removed & sprayed on both sides with the Cascade spray on - really neat stuff! I packed cotton insulation into all spaces between the wheel well plastic panels & sheet metal.
With the new Bridgestones, Baby Blue is quiet as a Lincoln...CD/Stereo sounds MUCH better, especially the highs. Beware - if you undertake a similar task, you will begin to notice every creak and crack your vinyl/plastic/leather interior makes. Do NOT use a silicone or teflon-based lubricant between the panels and metal. It could take the finish off leather, vinyl, etc. Use WD40 or something that smells better.
BTW, project cost around $400 for materials, lots of my hours - but then I work cheap!
Hawkeyes
05-25-2007, 02:32 PM
#6
Race Director
Road noise is bad in 928's......however it was excellent for its day......only okay by todays standards....I found that when I went to wider 18" wheels the noise did get worse...but the tradeoff in improved handling-traction-looks is well worth it....the real bummer with adding sound deadening is the added weight......but for street only 928's its not a big deal
IMNSHO...the three biggest improvements to a 928.....
1: RMB.....the sound just rules
2: Wheels & tires....modern look with improved performance
3: A pro level polish-wax....928 paint is very good......with proper care it still looks great even at 20+ years old!
IMNSHO...the three biggest improvements to a 928.....
1: RMB.....the sound just rules
2: Wheels & tires....modern look with improved performance
3: A pro level polish-wax....928 paint is very good......with proper care it still looks great even at 20+ years old!
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05-25-2007, 03:00 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by IcemanG17
IMNSHO...the three biggest improvements to a 928.....
<edit>
3: A pro level polish-wax....928 paint is very good......with proper care it still looks great even at 20+ years old!
<edit>
3: A pro level polish-wax....928 paint is very good......with proper care it still looks great even at 20+ years old!
I went by a highly recommended detailers place last night, and he did a bit of polishing here and there to show the potential results, and wow! I couldn't get over it. The paint looked great.
I'm now considering paying him to do it at $275 + tax, or doing myself. I bought a nice Porter Cable orbital sander/polisher, but I'm afraid to use it on the 928 as I've never used one before.
I think for the sake of the 928 I'm going to go with the pro this time.
He did comment on the high quality of the paint on the older P-cars, and how well they do with a polish/seal/waxing.
05-25-2007, 03:21 PM
#9
Race Director
Ed
looking at your avatar....is your 928 white or silver.....if its white...then its a single stage which means the paint is ROCK HARD....if its silver...it has a clear coat.....so its softer....
My 88 has single stage guards red....its very hard...& even with a PC set to it highest setting with cutting pads (yellow) and Optimum compound...it barely corrects anything......I would imagine if really took some time it would improve...but my paint is pretty good....so I'll just lightly polish it and leave it be...
Depending on what products you have (wax-polish-pads) to use with the PC will make a large difference in the final look....I would try this, since you already have the PC.....if it doesn't turn out how you want you can always take it to the pro detailer
wash
claybar (optional but a good idea)
polish (what pads do you have..& what polish)
cleaner-wax (something like optimum poli seal)
sealant-wax....(rejex or optiseal)
looking at your avatar....is your 928 white or silver.....if its white...then its a single stage which means the paint is ROCK HARD....if its silver...it has a clear coat.....so its softer....
My 88 has single stage guards red....its very hard...& even with a PC set to it highest setting with cutting pads (yellow) and Optimum compound...it barely corrects anything......I would imagine if really took some time it would improve...but my paint is pretty good....so I'll just lightly polish it and leave it be...
Depending on what products you have (wax-polish-pads) to use with the PC will make a large difference in the final look....I would try this, since you already have the PC.....if it doesn't turn out how you want you can always take it to the pro detailer
wash
claybar (optional but a good idea)
polish (what pads do you have..& what polish)
cleaner-wax (something like optimum poli seal)
sealant-wax....(rejex or optiseal)
05-25-2007, 04:09 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by V2Rocket_aka944
Slightly OT, but how hard would it be to put an S4 spoiler on an '83 S?
I personally don't like it. It's just the wrong style for the rest of the body.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Modern update - POWER ADDER.
05-25-2007, 05:41 PM
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1. Stiffer suspension Eibach/Bilstein or Koni whichever you prefer.
2. Any wheels other than than the flat wheels.
3. RMB or anything that lets you hear the music better.
4. Sport seats?
The cars are all there anyway with their ergonomics, brembo brakes, suspension design, handling and balance... Just a few needed changes that most would agree make it complete.
2. Any wheels other than than the flat wheels.
3. RMB or anything that lets you hear the music better.
4. Sport seats?
The cars are all there anyway with their ergonomics, brembo brakes, suspension design, handling and balance... Just a few needed changes that most would agree make it complete.
05-25-2007, 05:51 PM
#12
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I think Porsche thought the same way and that is why the GTS was produced. Most of what you describe is a GTS. There are some things that can be added to make it look current, but you're only going to get to a certain point before you have to reconstruct the whole car.(Porsches' already doing that for us and calling it a Panamera 2 door version 
)
I am all about keeping the look current on the car....and STILL doing that as we speak.
The funny thing is, lot's of us do our best to "personalize" our cars and make them current to a degree, but we all drool everytime we see a stock pristine 928 regardless of the year.
) I am all about keeping the look current on the car....and STILL doing that as we speak.
The funny thing is, lot's of us do our best to "personalize" our cars and make them current to a degree, but we all drool everytime we see a stock pristine 928 regardless of the year.
05-25-2007, 06:32 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by IcemanG17
Ed
looking at your avatar....is your 928 white or silver.....if its white...then its a single stage which means the paint is ROCK HARD....if its silver...it has a clear coat.....so its softer....
My 88 has single stage guards red....its very hard...& even with a PC set to it highest setting with cutting pads (yellow) and Optimum compound...it barely corrects anything......I would imagine if really took some time it would improve...but my paint is pretty good....so I'll just lightly polish it and leave it be...
Depending on what products you have (wax-polish-pads) to use with the PC will make a large difference in the final look....I would try this, since you already have the PC.....if it doesn't turn out how you want you can always take it to the pro detailer
wash
claybar (optional but a good idea)
polish (what pads do you have..& what polish)
cleaner-wax (something like optimum poli seal)
sealant-wax....(rejex or optiseal)
looking at your avatar....is your 928 white or silver.....if its white...then its a single stage which means the paint is ROCK HARD....if its silver...it has a clear coat.....so its softer....
My 88 has single stage guards red....its very hard...& even with a PC set to it highest setting with cutting pads (yellow) and Optimum compound...it barely corrects anything......I would imagine if really took some time it would improve...but my paint is pretty good....so I'll just lightly polish it and leave it be...
Depending on what products you have (wax-polish-pads) to use with the PC will make a large difference in the final look....I would try this, since you already have the PC.....if it doesn't turn out how you want you can always take it to the pro detailer
wash
claybar (optional but a good idea)
polish (what pads do you have..& what polish)
cleaner-wax (something like optimum poli seal)
sealant-wax....(rejex or optiseal)
And btw, the 928 that needs the paint polished is my guards red '88. The one in my avatar is my '85, and that one is "marble gray", basically white. The paint on the white one is in much better condition then the red one.
The paint on red '88 is pretty hurting and the quick sample spots that he polished up for me last night, well the difference was night and day. So I think the red '88 has a lot to be gained with a good quality polishing.
And I don't have any supplies yet, but may look into doing it myself since reading your post. I wouldn't mind saving a couple hundred bucks, plus it would be nice to learn how to do this.
05-25-2007, 07:46 PM
#14
Race Director
hmm
Guards red is a single stage...which is good and bad...good in the fact that it makes it "easier" to remove oxidation-fading..BUT the baint is so HARD that you need a high speed rotary polisher to do it....which runs the risk of burning through your 26 step paint.....this is why I recommend a pro level detailer thats knows what he is doing...
Guards red is a single stage...which is good and bad...good in the fact that it makes it "easier" to remove oxidation-fading..BUT the baint is so HARD that you need a high speed rotary polisher to do it....which runs the risk of burning through your 26 step paint.....this is why I recommend a pro level detailer thats knows what he is doing...
05-25-2007, 11:12 PM
#15
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Well this is ironic. I go out this afternoon to get some goodies for a new mod I'm doing to the car this weekend. I've got the windows down and sunroof open. Fantastic weather and just running the car down this busy strip of road at 4500rpm in 2nd enjoying the music. A guy pulls up next to me at a stop light and shouts "Man that thing sounds TIGHT and super well tuned...is that a NEW ONE?" I laughed and immedaitely thought about posting to this thread an hour earlier. I said no it's a 93 assuming he meant a new 2007 model. The guy was astonished. He said, "I would swear you just drove it out of the dealership!"
So I guess the little things we do to update the car DO accomplish that.
A guy pulls up next to me at a stop light and shouts "Man that thing sounds TIGHT and super well tuned...is that a NEW ONE?" I laughed and immedaitely thought about posting to this thread an hour earlier. I said no it's a 93 assuming he meant a new 2007 model. The guy was astonished. He said, "I would swear you just drove it out of the dealership!"So I guess the little things we do to update the car DO accomplish that.