SwayBar

No. Why not have a set for the track, and a set for the street? You're going to burn through a set at the track anyway, so it may as well be dedicated track pads.

Additionally, it's so easy to change out the street pads for tracks ones, and vice versa, and takes maybe 5 minutes per wheel to do-so. Granted it's not the best solution since you'll now have dissimilar pad material already embedded into the rotor, but it certainly beats running a 'compromise' pad.

Now unless you're a super slow driver on the track, it wouldn't matter what pad you're running. However, there are some who will blame that phenomenon on their tires.

No. They will never even come close to their operating temperature, and as a result, during a panic-stop on the street, you will not have full braking power, whereas street pads will have full torque available immediately, when you really need it.

It is not worth running 'compromise' pads on the street, nor track.

anonymousagain

Thanks SwayBar!!

Swapping for intended use was my next Q - appreciate the clarification for temp reaction and why race pads are not for street use.

Now I just have to find a top stopping street pad - figuring those with fresh fluid and appropriate brake use should be fine for my DD regimine...besides, any track time would be on street tires as well.

Thanks again.

Charley B

Thank you all for your much appreciated hints, help and instructions. Hopefully I'll have a chance to tear into it this weekend and I'll report back any unusual findings. What a great community Rennlist is and what a wealth of expertise is available. You guys are the best.

hacker-pschorr

I agree you should have seperate pads. However, I've found pagid orange work fine on the street. I drive my track car so little on public roads I just leave the orange pads in.

Black Sea RD

Yeah me too about the Pagid Orange pads for very limited street use. But they squeal terribly and like Swaybar said, never get close to correct operating temp for street use. If your car is a street car you sometimes play with on the track I would, as suggested, get another set of track pads and swap them out during the bleed process before your track day.

Hmmm, SITM is coming around the corner. There should be a lot of 928ers changing the brake fluid soon, before the leisurely drive down Grandfather mountain to the restaurant.

Cheers,
Constantine

John Veninger

mk wrote:
Yea, until one blows
Change the lines!

GUMBALL

That is correct (though it probably doesn't matter which side first) The reasoning being, the master cylinder is a dual piston - each piston feeding two wheels. Also, on some cars, there is a limit valve - preventing total loss of braking due to failure of an individual corner. If only one caliper is opened, the pressure in the other "half" will not allow full travel, preventing full flow.
Also, I would not bleed the master again at the end.

A race system with dual masters and a balance bar is bled the same way, for the same reasons.

I was always taught that the bleeding sequence (using 3 people) is:
> pump slowly 2-3 times, then hold pressure, driver says "pressure"
>crack both bleeders simultaneously, when the pedal goes to the floor, driver keeps it on the floor, and says "down"
>both bleeders closed, mechanic says "pump"
>repeat

On a race car, I would bleed system after each session, though that is overkill for our events.

Charley B

Any reason that wouldn't work using a power bleeder and two guys?

GUMBALL

Should work just fine, provided that a front and rear are opened and closed simultaneously..

Actually, from a mechanics point of view, it would work even better - by taking the driver out of the process.....

Charley B

Every mechanic has a little robot in the back room he's working on.

mark kibort

actually, ive run pagid orange for years on the street. there is NO problem running them on the street. plenty of grip for all conditions, no matter how cold they are. we are not talking pagid blacks, or carbon fiber rotors which do have issues with braking when cold. the other trick is to use a slightly less racy pad, like Mintex racing pads. the other trick is to use brand new rotors and pads at the same time. there will be no squealing as they wear better together.

mk

SwayBar

Sure Pagid Orange will get you to and from the track, but it is clearly not a safe pad to run exclusively on the street compared to a good street pad. As I stated earlier, one'll be up ****-creek in a panic-stop situation using Pagid Orange, versus being in the same situation with a street pad. To imply otherwise is irresponsible.

To back-up my opinion, the makers of some of the best brakes money can buy do not agree with you either; their recommendation on Pagid Orange is the 4th from the bottom:

http://www.stoptech.com/products/hig...nce_pads.shtml

Here is the key excerpt:

"Orange has an MOT of around 1,050°F. StopTech cannot recommend it for street use, as it can take a couple stops to come up to operating temperature. "


As Constantine stated, my Pagid Orange also squeal like a ***** to and from the track, and are super dusty.

worf928

From stoptech's site on the same page referenced above:

"Pagid RS 4-2-1 (Black) is a high-performance street compound with good fade characteristics and high cold friction. The most comfortable medium-friction sport compound, rotor friendly, and OE on various Ferrari, Lamborghini, Lotus, Bugatti, Audi, and Corvette (Callaway) models. Suitable for street and light track use." (My bold.)

As an alternative to swaybar's point of view, I think that specific 'dual-use' pads are fine for both street and light DE use. I've used both PF and Hawk dual-use pads. Both offer slightly better performance over stock on the track and any compromise in street performance is very, very slight.

Swapping pads does take only a few minutes. But, once the pads are swapped you have to re-bed the pads and rotors. In my experience, this becomes increasingly difficult as the pads and rotors wear from new. And until the pads are re-bedded the street braking performance can be just as, or more, dangerous than a cold full race pad.

In any case, the most important brake system preparation - fresh, new fluid, - has already been discussed along with ensuring that the system is functioning properly. That's far more important - at the beginner level - than optimizing pads. As a beginner, learning to handle the car on the track and how to correctly use the brakes (and not over-use them) is what should be foremost in your head.

And one other thing, once the pads are worn below 50% its time to replace them if you intend to run on-track. All the PCA Tech Inspection forms I've seen have this as a check-off item.

Once you get to the mid or high-intermediate levels you will want to think about non-street rubber and non-street alignment. Once you get there the car becomes less streetable anyway and trailering starts to make sense, along with full race pads.

mark kibort

I've seen no issues with cold pagid pads. thats just me, and i probably use more of them than anyone.

ill go out today, as i always do every week and the car will stop better than any on the road, panic or otherwise. sure the concept is sound,and the manufacturers need to say this to protect themselves. but in reality, a well bedded set of pagid oranges do the job well. now, if we are talking freezing conditions, maybe there is more of an issue, but in the 50-100 degree day range out west, ive never seen an issue, even a panic stop in the first few 100 yards of driving.

I dont see a lot of dust, and i have no squealing, BUT, i do bed my new rotors with new pads the correct way, and that seems to make a difference for subsequent pad changes on those rotors as they wear.

the problem with "panic" stops is just that. usually it's not the pads that fail, its the driver. hard panic stops usually lock the tires up , and/or engage ABS. Ill run against anyone with cold pagid orange pads in panic or controled stops for distance for BEER, any time!

mk

mark kibort

I wonder if there is a racing "black" pagid, as the pagid rep was at one of the races and suggested black as anderson uses them. he said it was a more agressive pad that would eat rotors ,but had superior stopping capabilities.
sure doesnt sound like this is the case from the stoptech information below

there are several types of racing compounds from Pagid, maybe your find below is regarding street sport catagories, not racing catagories.

MK