Nicole

Some German 928 owners told me they use R413 - which works without any changes to an R12 air conditioning system.

So, I did some research and found this: http://lists.osourcery.com/pipermail...ne/032886.html

3% of highly flamable buthane - not sure, how high the risk is in real life... I would not ever want my car to get charbroiled.

There is a link to another website: http://www.autofrost.com which promotes R406A on the following page: http://www.autofrost.com/x3feat.html

Has anybody used any of these substitutes, or others? I'm curious to hear about the experiences.

IcemanG17

Nicole
No sense changing your 91.....R12 works really well and you have an cheap local supply!!

911Mike

Yep, a great substitute for the old R12 is some new R12....

I wouldn't worry too much about the 3% flammable gas in that replcaement, it probably needs to be more concentrated than that in air to ignite.

Podguy

What was in the car at Sharks in the Mountains a couple of years back. I seem to remember a report of an unexpected and shocking fire.

Dan the Pod Guy

John Veninger

Ask Louie if he recommends any thing but R12 or R134

Buy good old R12 off of Ebay for ~$30.00 a can.

Normy

My '85 was converted to R134 by the previous owner, and it works reasonably well. I usually just roll the windows down.

This site talks about the conversions: http://www.griffiths.com/achelp/achelp3.html

BE careful with regard to flammable refrigerant gasses; look at the picture at the end of that website!

N!

ROG100

I sell it for $20 to $25 a can depending on where I bought it.
You must have a cert to buy from me though 8>)
If it aint broke don't fix it.

joejoe

I am using autofrost in my '81 right now. I put it in to look for leaks with dye but have not removed yet (2yrs) Head pressures are 15% lower and system is ice cold. This product is less flamable than 134. So far I like it. It is also cheaper than r-12.

John Veninger

From what I've read.
One problem with the "drop in" products is when there are very small leaks in the system. Certain components of the drop in cocktail leak out faster than others. This causes the balance of the gas in the system to become increasing more flammable.

The other problem is that usually no professional will touch the system if anything but R12 or R134 is/was in the system.

fst951

Stay with R12.

Andre Hedrick

R12 is $85/unit and it takes 3 units to fill an '81 928, I know first hand!!!

John Veninger

Ebay, ~$30.00/12oz can all day long.

SteveG

I don't know what a "unit" is, but I wouldn't stand too close to the engine, either that or I have a bridge I want to sell you.

If the car has no rear A/C it prob requires 33 oz, + rear is 37. IF the system was empty. If not, I wonder what pressures you are running?? YMMV.

Rob Edwards

EPA 609 certification: $20 (http://www.epatest.com/e_609cert.html)

30 lbs of R12 from Ebay: $300

R12 manifold gauge set from Ebay: $50

R12 charging cylinder from Ebay: $50

Vacuum pump 'borrowed' from lab now and again: free

Enough R12 to last me the rest of my life? Priceless.


EDIT: I don't have a recycler, so I still need to go to a shop for evacuating the system, but they're usually happy to take your old R12 from you for free.....

Tony

Darien and I are looking at splitting the cost of a 30lb can of R12 sold here locally.
my question is...

How can you be sure that the contents are actually R12 and not some sort of "knock off"..propapne/butane mix or somehting.?


Is the servicing of our r12 system a pretty easy DIY?
Anyone have a good write up on it?

Looks like Rob gave a pretty good rundown of the equipment needed..
You have any links for that equipment Rob?
Anything else neded?


Is the "high side" service port up near the upper radiator?
If so, i assume then that the low side is the one on the compressor unit itself?

Is there a way you can extend the valve on the service port/high side(near the upper radiator hose) so it is easier to get at? Its a PITA especially when the car is hot!!

Geeting a little OT i suppose but its going to get real hot here real soon! And I hate paying the price that service centers charge for this service!