Need (purchase) advice on 86 928s
03-04-2007, 09:17 PM
#46
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I'm gonna go back and see it tonight when nobody else is around.
Don't get picked up on the security cameras or you'll never be able to talk them down
. 'Yeah, this guy was here last night for like an hour, we got 'im. He'll pay anything we ask'.
03-04-2007, 09:22 PM
#47
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Thanks Ron and Mike. I guess everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but geez, on the other boards I've posted on, I'm getting comments like, "lamest Porsche ever made."
To be honest, fellas, I live in hillbilly land. A Porsche is either a "nice ride" or a "rich boy's car...let's see if we can scare him with our pickup!" Nobody around here is going to give me grief about the model. After driving the Lotus around, I'd like a sports car with a little less "extreme" look to it. The Porsche would make a nice grand touring machine.
Somebody shoot me in the head, it's driving me nuts.
To be honest, fellas, I live in hillbilly land. A Porsche is either a "nice ride" or a "rich boy's car...let's see if we can scare him with our pickup!" Nobody around here is going to give me grief about the model. After driving the Lotus around, I'd like a sports car with a little less "extreme" look to it. The Porsche would make a nice grand touring machine.
Somebody shoot me in the head, it's driving me nuts.
03-04-2007, 09:22 PM
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Ha, security cameras, I didn't think about that!
You all know, I didn't tell you the worst part about it.
I live in Morgantown, and I travel to work in Clarksburg where the car is located. I stay in an appartment when I go to Clarksburg. The reason why I know about the car is because the appartment I stay in is located right behind the dealership! The car is literally sitting a few yards from my front door!!!!!!!!!!
The dealership has new cars and used cars, and I watch the lot daily. They have not had anything to catch my attention like this car has. I'm gonna need a drink to get to sleep tonight.
You all know, I didn't tell you the worst part about it.
I live in Morgantown, and I travel to work in Clarksburg where the car is located. I stay in an appartment when I go to Clarksburg. The reason why I know about the car is because the appartment I stay in is located right behind the dealership! The car is literally sitting a few yards from my front door!!!!!!!!!!
The dealership has new cars and used cars, and I watch the lot daily. They have not had anything to catch my attention like this car has. I'm gonna need a drink to get to sleep tonight.
03-04-2007, 09:57 PM
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Alright, fellas, this is (potentially) my last post for a few days. I can't post on most forums at work, and my internet access will be limited. Ironically, I use the dealership's open wifi network with my PocketPC to access the web from my apartment, but it stinks to try and type on it. I will be reading this forum, but I won't be able to easily post. I'll talk to you all later, and I'll be taking my checkbook with me 
03-05-2007, 01:12 AM
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hey all,
I'm back in clarksburg, typing on my pocketpc. hard to type on, sorry for the punctuatuion. anyhow, the 928 is still there, calling me. such a beaut.
weird thing, there is an old blind dog camped out on my doorstep. I fed it, but it can't figure out how to get of my balcony. it is covered in poop. could this be a sign, lol.
I'm back in clarksburg, typing on my pocketpc. hard to type on, sorry for the punctuatuion. anyhow, the 928 is still there, calling me. such a beaut.
weird thing, there is an old blind dog camped out on my doorstep. I fed it, but it can't figure out how to get of my balcony. it is covered in poop. could this be a sign, lol.
03-05-2007, 04:21 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by Ron_H
This may be nothing, but once the electrical gremlin bites a 928 it is frustration city for you. If the battery is dead, why is it dead. In my car salesman days, someone always went around charging dead batteries on the dealership grounds. Why not this dealership? I would be careful of a gremlin. I have had one for a couple of years. I simply wearied of paying a fortune to someone else to check unsuccessfully for it, and also spending so long with a multi meter in my hand....unsuccessfully. It moves around. You think you have it and it jumps to another circuit. Screw it. I mounted a battery cutoff and turn it off when I park for more than a couple of hours. You don't want a gremlin, unless you want to do what I did. PIA because every time I restart the car I must reset the clock.
Send me a PM and I will send back my phone number. I have an EE degree and lots of experience with the 928 electrical systems. I can get down to a few things in an hours or so trouble shooting. There is no reason the 928 has to drain the battery. The electric system is fairly simple and can be made reliable. Electrical systems are an area where mechanics typically throw in the towel. There are very few who even know Ohms Law and if they do not reguarly work on German cars get confused with the Brown is ground concept.
Dan the Pod Guy
03-05-2007, 05:17 AM
#53
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If you are serious in setting the price, do not take your check book. A check book says you are open to writing a check. Thus the check can be any amount - even more than they were asking. I have we used the tactic of raising the price to get someone to buy. It is surprizing such a crude move works, but it does. All of a sudden hat $8700 price where you want to start to negotiate from is now $10,000.
If you want to set the price take a cashier's check for the amount. This way you have a set price and the only thing the dealer can do is offer to finance the balance. A cashier's check can be redeposited to your account and it is safer than carrying cash. A check book also brings into question if there is any money the the bank. A flake can and will flash a checkbook - especially for a falshy red 928. A cashier's check is real and when you walk out the door they are seeing real dollars leaving.
Here is the deal with dealers. They like auto wreckers are in the premium business. A wrecker will charge you premium price when you really need a part. Sometimes the part is something they will throw away if it does not sell. But since you need it and they never know what is going to sell off any particular car they need to max out the good sales. The dealer is the same way. They will often either own more than one lot or have a cooperative deal with other dealers to pass slow moving high emotion cars around. So while a slow mover like the 928 may not sell it can be used as a traffic generator. By rotating inventory they keep thier lots fresh.
Since most dealers operate on a high inventory low turn over basis they, like the auto wrecker, want to maximize each sale. High inventory means at any one time they have a car for every customer. Maximizing a sale is more than price. If they finance a car they get a return on the financing. If they can sell you a lease the return is even higher. If they can sell you a service policy all the more profit. If you need insurance to drive off the lot then even better. If you have a trade that is more profit. Many times the right customer is the weakest customer because they can both mark up the price and make kick backs on all the other sales items. Remember dealers like any other businessmen are trying to make a profit.
They also have a back end for the car. If it does not sell after a period of time and is no longer generating traffic they will wholesale it out to another dealer (or some bottom feeder) to get some other eye candy. On this car $3500 is probably the back end wholesale. I am just guessing, but if I were a dealer that is where I would have to be on the 928. If it was a trade they probably took it in at $2000-2500 and put $1000 into it detailing it out. High profile cars often do not make the dealer much money, but they can get the traffic onto the lot so the dealer can sell the more practical wife a Corola.
You might have an advantage since the dealer sells new cars. If they picked the car up in trade then sometimes they just want to dump it. Your going in with a $5000 cashiers check and buying the car with no further interaction will tell if they just want to dump it. But if you go this route make the deal definitive and with no stings - not even a PPI. At $5000 you are buying the body and allowing a $3500 reserve for repairs. With $3500 if you do the labor you can rebuild the car from the ground up. As soon as you mention terms and conditions then the salesman see a battle ahead and has to get top dollar for his effort.
If you are taking in a cashier's check then ask directly for the Used Car Sales Manager. Do not let some salesman pretend he is the manager or offer to write something up to take to the manager. Just get to the manager directly and present him the check and offer to take the car off the lot immediately (that is if they can get it started). The sales manager can by pass the salesmen and does not have to pay a sales commission on a direct sale. Salesmen work on the next up basis. That is the next guy to walk on the lot is a particular salesman's victim. Instead of dicking with any of them go to service first. Ask the service manager to point you to the Used Car Sales Manager and then make your pitch.
New tires on a 928 seems to be common. They do go through tires. Tires are one of the first things a customer looks at and one of the quickest way to determine if the car has alignment or drive line problems. As you describe this car it might have been in storage for a long while. The tires could have been severely cracked. The dealer is legally responisble for safety items on any car they sell. All the lights must work, the tires have legal tread, brakes functioning and the rest of the safety equipment be working. I am not sure if you have a safety inspection where you live, but the dealer is responsible for these items. Putting on new tires is a quick and cheap way to limit liability on a car the buyer will probably take off the lot and run up to 100 MPH almost immediately.
Once you get the car immediately have an inspection done - preferably at the Porsche dealership. Any safety items can then be negoiated for repair with the dealer. This way instead of negoitaing some mythical price, you have a fixed cost and are then just getting what is legally yours. "AS-IS" will not protect the dealer from the safety obligation. If the rotors are worn beyond specs they will have to pay for new ones. If the suspension has excess wear then they will have to repair it. If the lights do not work - same thing. So in effect you are doing a post PPI with benefits. The Porsche dealer should also give you a range of things that will need attention so you can start on your repair plan.
Good luck
Dan the Pod Guy
If you want to set the price take a cashier's check for the amount. This way you have a set price and the only thing the dealer can do is offer to finance the balance. A cashier's check can be redeposited to your account and it is safer than carrying cash. A check book also brings into question if there is any money the the bank. A flake can and will flash a checkbook - especially for a falshy red 928. A cashier's check is real and when you walk out the door they are seeing real dollars leaving.
Here is the deal with dealers. They like auto wreckers are in the premium business. A wrecker will charge you premium price when you really need a part. Sometimes the part is something they will throw away if it does not sell. But since you need it and they never know what is going to sell off any particular car they need to max out the good sales. The dealer is the same way. They will often either own more than one lot or have a cooperative deal with other dealers to pass slow moving high emotion cars around. So while a slow mover like the 928 may not sell it can be used as a traffic generator. By rotating inventory they keep thier lots fresh.
Since most dealers operate on a high inventory low turn over basis they, like the auto wrecker, want to maximize each sale. High inventory means at any one time they have a car for every customer. Maximizing a sale is more than price. If they finance a car they get a return on the financing. If they can sell you a lease the return is even higher. If they can sell you a service policy all the more profit. If you need insurance to drive off the lot then even better. If you have a trade that is more profit. Many times the right customer is the weakest customer because they can both mark up the price and make kick backs on all the other sales items. Remember dealers like any other businessmen are trying to make a profit.
They also have a back end for the car. If it does not sell after a period of time and is no longer generating traffic they will wholesale it out to another dealer (or some bottom feeder) to get some other eye candy. On this car $3500 is probably the back end wholesale. I am just guessing, but if I were a dealer that is where I would have to be on the 928. If it was a trade they probably took it in at $2000-2500 and put $1000 into it detailing it out. High profile cars often do not make the dealer much money, but they can get the traffic onto the lot so the dealer can sell the more practical wife a Corola.
You might have an advantage since the dealer sells new cars. If they picked the car up in trade then sometimes they just want to dump it. Your going in with a $5000 cashiers check and buying the car with no further interaction will tell if they just want to dump it. But if you go this route make the deal definitive and with no stings - not even a PPI. At $5000 you are buying the body and allowing a $3500 reserve for repairs. With $3500 if you do the labor you can rebuild the car from the ground up. As soon as you mention terms and conditions then the salesman see a battle ahead and has to get top dollar for his effort.
If you are taking in a cashier's check then ask directly for the Used Car Sales Manager. Do not let some salesman pretend he is the manager or offer to write something up to take to the manager. Just get to the manager directly and present him the check and offer to take the car off the lot immediately (that is if they can get it started). The sales manager can by pass the salesmen and does not have to pay a sales commission on a direct sale. Salesmen work on the next up basis. That is the next guy to walk on the lot is a particular salesman's victim. Instead of dicking with any of them go to service first. Ask the service manager to point you to the Used Car Sales Manager and then make your pitch.
New tires on a 928 seems to be common. They do go through tires. Tires are one of the first things a customer looks at and one of the quickest way to determine if the car has alignment or drive line problems. As you describe this car it might have been in storage for a long while. The tires could have been severely cracked. The dealer is legally responisble for safety items on any car they sell. All the lights must work, the tires have legal tread, brakes functioning and the rest of the safety equipment be working. I am not sure if you have a safety inspection where you live, but the dealer is responsible for these items. Putting on new tires is a quick and cheap way to limit liability on a car the buyer will probably take off the lot and run up to 100 MPH almost immediately.
Once you get the car immediately have an inspection done - preferably at the Porsche dealership. Any safety items can then be negoiated for repair with the dealer. This way instead of negoitaing some mythical price, you have a fixed cost and are then just getting what is legally yours. "AS-IS" will not protect the dealer from the safety obligation. If the rotors are worn beyond specs they will have to pay for new ones. If the suspension has excess wear then they will have to repair it. If the lights do not work - same thing. So in effect you are doing a post PPI with benefits. The Porsche dealer should also give you a range of things that will need attention so you can start on your repair plan.
Good luck
Dan the Pod Guy
03-05-2007, 07:32 AM
#54
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Great post Dan - and this point is well made:
"Your going in with a $5000 cashiers check and buying the car with no further interaction will tell if they just want to dump it. But if you go this route make the deal definitive and with no stings - not even a PPI. At $5000 you are buying the body and allowing a $3500 reserve for repairs." Five or six thou for this car may be a very good buy indeed, even with some issues (unless it's been wrecked and not properly repaired - Carfax!).
If you buy the car Eclise, shoot me a pm. If you pass, shoot me a pm - it is close enough for a drive to see it!
"Your going in with a $5000 cashiers check and buying the car with no further interaction will tell if they just want to dump it. But if you go this route make the deal definitive and with no stings - not even a PPI. At $5000 you are buying the body and allowing a $3500 reserve for repairs." Five or six thou for this car may be a very good buy indeed, even with some issues (unless it's been wrecked and not properly repaired - Carfax!).
If you buy the car Eclise, shoot me a pm. If you pass, shoot me a pm - it is close enough for a drive to see it!
03-05-2007, 01:38 PM
#55
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The PPI is up to you, but no matter, I would plan on putting money into it. You need to budget about $2K/yr. I assume there is no reliable history with it. Search here about TBelt. There is a jump post under hood, passenger side, top, may have a plastic cover over it to keep water out. But get a new batt and stop jumping it, esp if from the Pontiac, you may kill the computer if a crappy alternator spikes, don't use those portable packs. Sounds like a good deal, congrats and good luck.
03-05-2007, 01:39 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Podguy
If you are serious in setting the price...
Good luck
Dan the Pod Guy
Good luck
Dan the Pod Guy
Thanks Dan, you are truly an asset to this forum.
Eclipse: don't mind the anti-928 crowd, they're just jealous that is was designed, built, and marketed to replace the ancient-oddball design of the 911.
And this the nicest car forum I know of on teh intraweb.
03-05-2007, 01:59 PM
#57
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Dan,
Some great advice there. Cool technique I'll have to remember for the future. So many times buying a car becomes 'emotional' and then they have you. My dad used to sell cars. He used to say, "Once you sit down and an offer is put on the table, the next one to speak loses."
Some great advice there. Cool technique I'll have to remember for the future. So many times buying a car becomes 'emotional' and then they have you. My dad used to sell cars. He used to say, "Once you sit down and an offer is put on the table, the next one to speak loses."
03-06-2007, 01:53 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by SteveG
The PPI is up to you, but no matter, I would plan on putting money into it. You need to budget about $2K/yr. I assume there is no reliable history with it. Search here about TBelt. There is a jump post under hood, passenger side, top, may have a plastic cover over it to keep water out. But get a new batt and stop jumping it, esp if from the Pontiac, you may kill the computer if a crappy alternator spikes, don't use those portable packs. Sounds like a good deal, congrats and good luck.
Given the number of botched T-belt jobs I have seen, the seller having a new T-Belt is no incentive, other than maybe they bought new rollers you will not have to buy. I tear down every car I get - even if it has just had a T-Belt. There are a lot of things that get missed, like the front seal (I recently made that misake), old bushings on the idler arm, no oil in the tensioner (twice) and a damper that had split in two. Maybe I would press it on a pre-32 valve car, but given the cost and time of pulling a 32 valve engine and doing a valve job, I want to be sure it is right.
As far as jumping the 85-86 I have never had a problem. The 87 up computers may be fragile, but the 85-86 computers are rock solid. I have yet to see one go bad. I am sure it happens, but when you look on eBay no one is buying the 85-86 computers.
Dan the Pod Guy
03-06-2007, 10:25 AM
#59
Drifting
Originally Posted by Eclise
I saw a 928s on my local car lot. It's an 86 model, 1 owner, 30K miles, wanting $8700 for it. I went for a test drive, and it was nice. The car has no dings in the paint; it was garage kept and it shows. No cracks in the dash or in the leather interior.
Guards red with no side moldings, 1 owner garage kept. I remember something in penn. a few years back like this that was going for a lot more money. This is a major league steal at the quoted price.
Forget batteries or mysterious gremlins, that can be fixed. The ravages of time can not be ( easily). The paint, the carpet, the leather, and the general cleanliness of this car are the things that are worth money. It is a time capsule and better pics would show it.
If i were you, i would show up with cash and a smile.
03-06-2007, 11:26 AM
#60
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Originally Posted by Podguy
Steve,
Given the number of botched T-belt jobs I have seen, the seller having a new T-Belt is no incentive, other than maybe they bought new rollers you will not have to buy. I tear down every car I get - even if it has just had a T-Belt. There are a lot of things that get missed, like the front seal (I recently made that misake), old bushings on the idler arm, no oil in the tensioner (twice) and a damper that had split in two. Maybe I would press it on a pre-32 valve car, but given the cost and time of pulling a 32 valve engine and doing a valve job, I want to be sure it is right.
As far as jumping the 85-86 I have never had a problem. The 87 up computers may be fragile, but the 85-86 computers are rock solid. I have yet to see one go bad. I am sure it happens, but when you look on eBay no one is buying the 85-86 computers.
Dan the Pod Guy
Given the number of botched T-belt jobs I have seen, the seller having a new T-Belt is no incentive, other than maybe they bought new rollers you will not have to buy. I tear down every car I get - even if it has just had a T-Belt. There are a lot of things that get missed, like the front seal (I recently made that misake), old bushings on the idler arm, no oil in the tensioner (twice) and a damper that had split in two. Maybe I would press it on a pre-32 valve car, but given the cost and time of pulling a 32 valve engine and doing a valve job, I want to be sure it is right.
As far as jumping the 85-86 I have never had a problem. The 87 up computers may be fragile, but the 85-86 computers are rock solid. I have yet to see one go bad. I am sure it happens, but when you look on eBay no one is buying the 85-86 computers.
Dan the Pod Guy