85fortheDrive

The lights are on, but nobody's home...

When I turn the headlights on, the lamps turn on but the lights do not pop up. Turning the lights off then causes the lights to pop up and then retract again. After a few times turning the switch on and off, they sometimes do pop up.

I've searched a bit on headlight malfunctions and it seems that there are a couple of possible suspect relays. 27? 39?

Any suggestions?

Thanks as always.

Mike Frye

Hey,

Were they working OK before this happened? Did you do any work anywhere prior to this change?
I'm having some problems with mine too, but I've learned a few things.


If it's something that has been going on for a while (or since you worked on or adjusted the motor), the following might be issues:

First of all, the lights should only come on in the full up position. This is a function of a disk inside the top of the headlight motor. If you're getting contact in anything but the up position, they may just not be set up right.

You might want to try disconnecting the arm that connects to the motor, turn on the lights, and when the motor gets to where it's going to go, the lights should come on. Put the arm on the motor and tighten the nut enough so it doesn't slip off.

Try cycling it through a few times and see if it's OK. If so, tighten the nut down.

If they were working and then stopped, it might be the relay. It's a 'double relay', look it up on the chart and pull it out, clean the contacts and replace, it might just be bad connections.

JKelly

Check them for any debris. I had like 2 leaves, the kind from a tree, stuck under the front part of the light one day and the lights wouldn't pop up.

Edit: oops, I see that your lights pop up when you turn them off....

crackerfeet

I was experiencing the same problem. Maybe this will help.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/300935-calling-all-electronics-gurus-headlights-coming-up-and-on-intermittantly-rv.html

85fortheDrive

Michael:

Thanks for the link to the previous thread. I will clean the relay contacts and, if that doesn't work, then pursue the diode possibility. Where is the motor to the headlights, may I ask...?

Peace,
Tim

SharkSkin

I would advise against cleaning relay contacts with any abrasive, except as a troubleshooting measure when you're already committed to replacing the relay. You will remove the hard plating on the contact surfaces and expose the softer metal underneath, and the fix won't last very long. I'd say check the relay terminals, e.g. unplug & re-install it, then check the diodes, then if all else fails take a closer look at the relay. It sounds like your relay is fine, but it's just confused because a blown diode is preventing it from getting the correct signals.

John Struthers

Other oddities to consider.
First, location of motor.
Lift hood, facing rear of sHARk look left and right at the headlamp buckets what connects them?
There is a central connecting bar, follow it from pass side to drivers side till you find where the bar is connected by a metal tab/ear to yet another bar. This is the actuating arm/bar. Look closely. Where the actuating arm connects to the long central connecting bar/tube is a pin with a C clip holding it in place. If no C clip the two bars can seperate. If they seperate the small actuating arm (motor side)
can motor around when you turn on the headlights and puncture the radiator. Not a good thing. Make sure that clip is in place!
Any how, the short arm is actually a two piece, single hinge arm that is connected to the Motor.
Easy headlight motor locator: There are a series of about 10 bolts, front to rear that attach the fender lip to the inner fender. Count back two (2) from the front, the round cylindical thing with a rubber cap in the first available space inboard of that second bolt is the motor. If you press down on the top of that rubber cap you will feel a pretty big ****. If you look in the archives under this topic or in your owners manual you will discover the use for the ****. Sometimes this is the problem. In my case, once I moved the **** while detailing, another time my battery ran so low that the lights would not retract when I turned the light switch off. After recharge the lights would not cycle properly.
Both times symptoms were similar to yours. In my case the disorder was corrected with a battery disconnect and fiddling with that ****.
Had to do both...why? damifino. But it worked for me.
Since this is the easiest of the abovementioned fixes...try it first.
Good luck, and let us know the cure that you find.

85fortheDrive

John:

Thanks for taking the time to add another option to the checklist. I will print out your post and take a look at the motor arms. I'll make sure I locate the C clip and ensure that it's in place.

Peace,
Tim

Mike Frye

Tim,

One more thing, the **** on top of the headlight motor will enable you to manually raise/retract the headlights when the key is off or the lights are not on. Do not turn this clockwise. It normally only turns counter-clockwise, and if you turn it the other way, you could bend the metal contact springs the wrong way inside the motor contact disk and cause permanent damage to the unit.

Using this to manually raise and lower the headlights one time through the cycle will confirm that there's no binding.

You haven't mentioned whether this is a new problem or if it's been like this since you got the car. Any work done on the car that might have affected electrical things or mechanicals in the front of the car?

Alan

it could be the relay or it could be the limit switches or wiring.

The tell tale here is that the lights do go on even when down, and that they then cycle fully when turned off. This tells me that the relay always thinks the pods are up - because they are not supposed to turn on until they are up. The off scenario is actually correct - thats how it is designed to work (for a <87) - except that it usually starts from an up position. The (down) mechanism just tells the motor to run untill it gets to the down limit switch position.

So most likely to me is that your "up-limit" swicth on the pod motor that tells the relay when the pods are up is stuck the whole time in "up" mode. Could be a connection or diode issue. 2nd most likely is the relay - but I'd check the switch first - probably a much cheaper fix. Test the switch connections as you rotate the pods manually with the **** on top of the motor. I'm fairly sure you will discover the down limit switch works fine and the up limit switch does nothing.

Alan

hacker-pschorr

My 79 has a nice new radiator because of this (before I bought it)

85fortheDrive

Just wanted the thoughtful voices of experience to know that I've tried a little bit of each of these suggestions and the headlights seem to be working okay now. Of course I also tried incense, accupuncture, reading the collective works of Susan Sontag, and clinking little finger cymbals together while in the lotus position.

Thanks!

Bill Ball

The finger cymbal part was probably the key, but you'll never know for sure.