Champagne

Hello all,

as a general rule, I try not to comment openly when a specific transaction with a vendor goes sour. I find that it is often an isolated incident that rarely represents the vendors usual practice. Anyone can have a bad day.

But in this instance, I feel that at the very least, I should caution the board against Griffith and their AC kit, since this particular experience goes back 2 and half years, 3 separate compressors and a continued effort on Griffith's part to avoid by all means basic things like customer service, backing your product or even simply honoring your warranty.

I converted my AC system early when I bought the car and used the Griffith kit which advertised a Kuehl compressor, hoses, a drier and a bracket to replace the stock system.

The first compressor lasted 13 months, the second lasted a year and the third lasted 2 months and 250 miles.

Each time, Griffith refused to even discuss any type of warranty. On the first one, the warranty had lapsed by one month, so OK, I bought a new compressor. That second one failed about the same time as the warranty and when Griffith insisted that the fault could only be the shop that installed it, my technician bought the 3rd. That one lasted 250 miles.

We measured and analyzed the oil from it and found little or no debris. Likewise we cut the drier open and inspected it and found no debris. At each replacement the entire system was totally flushed and inspected for contamination. Proper oil levels were provided upon reinstallation and fans were tested. Each of the three failures were attributed to destruction of the piston to swash plate contact shoe causing an immediate “jamming” or lockup of the compressor.

We sent all the data to Griffith along with the compressors. To those who know how this work, let me explain that this "Kuehl" compressor is a rather cheap knock off. As it turns out, the contact shoe in question used to be brass, but as now been changed to some kind of soft white metal. And this is how all 3 compressors seized and locked up. Yet, Griffith refused to honor their warranty on the theory that since they sold many of these and they tell us that they never fail , it would therefore mean that we (my technician) did something wrong. My technician by the way is the past president of the local Porsche club and owner/operator of a service center catering mainly to Porsches and specializing in AC work.

I have since replaced the Kuehl with a Japanese “Seltec” unit which is constructed with a ball bearing swash plate contact method. This unit is a far better quality, fits nicely and cost half of the Griffith unit.

The idea of this post is not to open a debate. I'm sure that many will chime in, stating that they never had any problems with their system and I am envious of their situation.
I just want to warn those who are preparing to use this kit to be aware that not only did my system fail 3 times for the same reason, but more importantly, Griffith, even when presented with the proof, as failed to take responsibility.

Just a word of caution.

Paul

danglerb

Who makes the best most reliable and efficient compressor for a car?

RyanPerrella

Thats good you mentioned "Kuehl" specifically. I have heard that name before, perhaps its marketed as an improvement, but from your experience its garbage. Glad you did post, i had previously considered Griffiths one of the top AC places although i had never purchased anything from them. They were near the top of that list cause i have heard of them everywhere in the Porsche community.

Thanks for the heads up, i will take my future AC issues to someone else.

As for newer compressors, dont they have an altogether better design now in the rotary compressors. Ive heard many Air cooled 911 guys talk about these. They are much smaller and i suppose allot more efficent. Thats about all i know about AC compressors.

T_MaX

@ Danglerb: There are many good Mfg's of automotive compressors, but my favorite for a retro application is Sanden http://www.sanden.com, next would have to be Seltec http://www.seltec.com/ and the old AC/Delco/Carrier A-6 http://www.transportaircon.carrier.c...ETI268,00.html.

@Paul: Sorry to hear of your problems with Kuehl compressors and Griffith! It sounds like a problem I had with Hi/Lo- O’reillys auto parts and four remanufactured Four Season A/C compressors.

As long as you bought a new Seltec compressor you should find it to serve you well.

Champagne

You are welcome guys,


Thanks Curtis,

as I see it, I already have 4x the mileage on the Seltec than my last Kuehl and at $189.00 compared to $400.00 for the Kuehl, I'm doing good

Paul

SharkSkin

Interesting. I have the same setup and it's been fine. I use a high pressure switch instead of a temp cutoff though, as I've heard the temp cutoff lets the pressure get too high. May be a factor, may not be. The guy who answered the phone was a grouch though, I was wondering how it would go if I were a dissatisfied customer rather than a prospective customer, but I jumped in hoping for the best. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

danglerb

When I was researching home AC I met someone that got fed up with service people and bought a couple books, studied, and passed the exam to get a freon license (HVAC, not cars). Its a can of worms as far as I am concerned, crossing my fingers I never need to learn more. Except for maybe freon intercooler for a supercharger, something practical.

joejoe

Sorry to hear of your experience champagne. I also had a poor experience with an a/c shop in which I spent around 7k over the years for poor / bad work. It seems (from them) the drip from the front of compressor was normal (until warranty was finished), then all of a sudden the campressor was no good. Finally I went online took the test for 609 certification, bought two used r12 recovery units, guages, etc. (also of course freon, 60lbs) I then redid thier poor work and have had great a/c for over 2 yrs now.

Champagne

Doing the work yourself and having control over the process is certainly a +, especially with these cars.
But in this case, I have the proof that the work (in all 3 cases) was exemplary and by the book. It is the compressor's design that is faulty. They have replaced the ball bearing swash plate contact with a cheaper solid shoe. In all 3 instances, that shoe disintegrated and locked up the compressor. There was no warning and no contamination of the rest of the system. It was working 100% until the last second when it seized and broke it's belt.

If I was to do it all over again, I would simply have a reputable shop rebuild the original Nippondenso 6E171 unit.

Paul

the flyin' scotsman

Paul...........thanks for posting this.

Refreshing the a/c system is on my winter 'to do' and I was considering the Griffith/Kuehl compressor.

Given that the originals are rebuildable do you know of a 'kit' thats available?

Oldtee

I wish this thread had been available when I was looking for a inexpensive replacement for my belly up compressor. I bought a used unit for $100. If I had known that one could be had for new for $189 I would have jumped at it.

Tom in Austin

Good advice ... A/C compressors are tricky. We went through 3 or 4 rebuilts a few years back on another car. A good product and warranty are clearly essential for this job.

Shame on Griffiths, they've lost more goodwill in the Porsche community than they made on stiffing our friend in this thread.

heinrich

Paul, I have known you for some years now to be a very honest, very good man. I read your post a couple of times. I think it is clear, from just an outside viewer's perspective, that there is very likely a problem with the way the compressor was installed. Maybe it was alignment, maybe something else. The unit that Griffith supplies may certainly be a POS, that is also possible. I know there are others with that particular unit that have had no issues.

Now, about customer service. If I were Griffith I might have a hard time believing that in your particular case, three compressors have failed due to defect. Griffith sell many of these, they should know of any other failures. Let's assume for a minute they don't, and you are the only customer whose unit has failed three times in rapid succession. In their mind, your technician's instal job is the issue. I'm not sure how they would handle it.

Now if we believe that they have these complaints from others ... then yes, I would say they are dodging the issue and their service sucks.

Either way Paul, I have posted these types of things before and every time, no matter how legitimate I know my grip was .... I was sorry later that I had posted it.

I wish you the best. Please let us know how the Japanese part works. Certainly if it does not fail ... then it would appear that the Griffith unit is a POS.

All the best Paul, and keep cool
Heinrich
(I have never done business with Griffith)

iJeremy

That's rough, I know I'll soon be needing A/C work on a 928 and will be taking my business else where. Thanks for the post and being level-headed enough to give Griffith every oppurtunity to make things right. Their loss in the end.

Earl Gillstrom

T_MaX , You said

There are many good Mfg's of automotive compressors, but my favorite for a retro application is Sanden http://www.sanden.com, next would have to be Seltec http://www.seltec.com/ and the old AC/Delco/Carrier A-6 http://www.transportaircon.carrier...._ETI268,00.html.

Are the Sanden or Seltic bolt on or do you have to make special hoses and mounts to adapt to the 928?