Notices
928 Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: 928 Specialists

Car is 'unalignable'.....

 
Old 10-11-2006, 04:55 PM
  #1  
959Lover
User
Thread Starter
 
959Lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dark side of the moon
Posts: 386
Default Car is 'unalignable'.....

First off, this is my first time posting in this forum. I usually hang around the 924/944/968 forums as I know some of the locals that are on there. I am not the owner of the 928 in the family, but I have been given the task of taking care of it. The car is an '83.

I took the car to the alignment shop (FRPorscheman rebuilt the steering rack) since everything was worked on. I left the shop, and 30 minutes later, the tech calls me and says the car is unalignable. I went back to the shop and talked to the guy, and he said there was too much play. Long story short, my bro and I know the rack is pretty darn firm, but the tech says there is too much seesaw play of the inner rack rod. I called my bro up and told him the story, and said the tech doesn't know wtf he is talking about, because that is not how it was when he put the rack back together. The tech also mentioned something about the inner tie rod ends being loose. Again, called the bro and he said he replaced them. Anyone have advice?

I payed $20 for the guy to tell me he can't align the front wheels because when he moved one wheel, the other wheel shifted. Blah Blah Blah. Should I try another shop? I went to a Midas for the alignment. If I left out crucial information, ask so I can get accurate answers. Thanks.
959Lover is offline  
Old 10-11-2006, 05:00 PM
  #2  
Scott M.
Rest in Peace
Rennlist Member
 
Scott M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Penn State
Posts: 2,240
Default

Did they replace the 4 rack bushings? Common source of 'rack' movement.
Scott M. is offline  
Old 10-11-2006, 05:28 PM
  #3  
heinrich
928 Collector
Rennlist Member

 
heinrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 17,264
Default

There is only so much that can play ... and it can all be replaced. Be glad he told you and didn't just do and charge.
heinrich is offline  
Old 10-11-2006, 05:29 PM
  #4  
Gary Knox
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Gary Knox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 2,662
Default

I would not recommend taking a 928 to Midas, or any of the other "production" generic car shops. Since you are in the bay area, take it to Devek, or at least ask them if there is any place nearer you that they would recommend.
web site is: www.devek.net Address is:
837 2nd Avenue, Redwood City CA 94063

650-369-DEVEK (phone) 650-369-3389 (fax)


Gary Knox
West Chester, PA
Gary Knox is offline  
Old 10-11-2006, 06:06 PM
  #5  
SeanR
Running up the Odo'
Rennlist Member
 
SeanR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: DFW Texas
Posts: 34,494
Default

Did he lift the car off the ground when he tried the alignment?
SeanR is offline  
Old 10-11-2006, 06:13 PM
  #6  
SharkSkin
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
SharkSkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
Posts: 12,620
Default

The inner rack bushings -- the ones that the rack itself rides on -- may not have been replaced. I've heard they don't come with the rebuild kit. And yes, if those are loose it will affect the way the car drives, and will make it a challenge(though not impossible) to align. BTDT.

Were the inner tie rod ends loose as in not screwed in tight enough(108 ft lbs is spec) or loose as in worn out? It's possible that they felt tight when out of the car but were installed in a position that has more play. Usually it's the opposite though... there will be some play initially, but upon disassembly and reassembly there is less play because things are not in exactly the right place(also BTDT, but with other cars).

Anyway, to check the rack for this "seesaw" play, get under there and pull the boot back on either side. Try wiggling the rack up & down, fore & aft, and at 45░ angles in between. it should move less than 1/2mm if the inner bushings are in good shape.

Midas... did they lift the front wheels off the ground at any point during the time they had it? That would be a side issue, it wouldn't cause any play but it would indicate enough ignorance on their part that you should run away and consider yourself lucky that it only cost you $20 instead of more $ plus a set of front tires.
SharkSkin is offline  
Old 10-11-2006, 06:41 PM
  #7  
Bill Ball
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
Bill Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 18,467
Default

To be clear, the rack housing has four bushings where it bolts to the cross-member, but the rack also has bushings on the shaft ends that the tie rod is screwed into. The latter bushings can wear and are NOT replaced by aftermarket rebuilders. This can allow the shaft to move fore and aft in the rack and create play in the steering, as well as the more commonly discussed rack housing bushings.

The tech is doing standard evaluation of play by moving the front wheels with the steering wheel locked down. If he sees play, you need to listen to him. Also, you need to make sure he doesn't try to align the car after these tests in the future, even if it passes, as this will produce incorrect toe setting. The car needs to be pulled down following a procedure in the WSM or aligned after being driven 100 miles after any lifting of the front suspension.
Bill Ball is offline  
Old 10-11-2006, 06:43 PM
  #8  
heinrich
928 Collector
Rennlist Member

 
heinrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 17,264
Default

Care to post the page please Bill?
heinrich is offline  
Old 10-11-2006, 06:47 PM
  #9  
Bill Ball
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
Bill Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 18,467
Default

H'man: Don't have the WSM handy at the moment, but I will later. The WSM shows using one of those motor support bridges that people use to suspend the motor when doing motor mounts, but using it underneath to pull the suspension down something like 60-70mm and holding it for a minute and a half or so.
Bill Ball is offline  
Old 10-11-2006, 06:51 PM
  #10  
SharkSkin
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
SharkSkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
Posts: 12,620
Default

To be a little more clear... the inner bushings on the shaft ends as Bill describes are replaced when ZF rebuilds racks, 928 International's rebuilder replaces them if needed, and Griffith's (I have been told) cannot replace those bushings. YMMV, ask before you spend, especially with other vendors.
SharkSkin is offline  
Old 10-11-2006, 06:54 PM
  #11  
Bill Ball
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
Bill Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 18,467
Default

Thanks for that detail, Dave. Good to hear that at least one source other than ZF will replace those bushings.
Bill Ball is offline  
Old 10-11-2006, 07:09 PM
  #12  
SharkSkin
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
SharkSkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
Posts: 12,620
Default

Yeah Bill, that plus the three year warranty(and the price) was what sold me.
SharkSkin is offline  
Old 10-12-2006, 09:56 AM
  #13  
928FIXER
User
 
928FIXER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: chesapeake va 23322
Posts: 362
Default

I went through this about 6 years ago.Extented Warranty company kept wanting to replace steering rack with spray and pray rebuits that they could get for 160 bucks from some company that they had a contract with.Had them ship 3 or 4 racks out and install them.Loose as a goose.You could grab the tie rod and push rack internals up and down.After enough of this dicking around I forced them to pay for a reman porsche rack.Fixed all the problems.Its still in the car 6 years latter.
928FIXER is offline  
Old 10-12-2006, 10:19 AM
  #14  
blown 87
Rest in Peace
Rennlist Member
 
blown 87's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
Posts: 9,903
Default

Originally Posted by 928FIXER
I went through this about 6 years ago.Extented Warranty company kept wanting to replace steering rack with spray and pray rebuits that they could get for 160 bucks from some company that they had a contract with.Had them ship 3 or 4 racks out and install them.Loose as a goose.You could grab the tie rod and push rack internals up and down.After enough of this dicking around I forced them to pay for a reman porsche rack.Fixed all the problems.Its still in the car 6 years latter.
You should try dealing with the public on some of this stuff.
They seem to think that any part they get from Autozone,pepboys,advance is just as good as any thing you can get from any where else.
If I hear "But I can get the same thing at Autozone for less than half that" I will most times just refuse to work on there car.
Junk is Junk, I do not care what the warrenty on it is.
blown 87 is offline  
Old 10-12-2006, 04:56 PM
  #15  
Ron_H
928 Barrister
Rennlist Member

 
Ron_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 4,771
Default

I agre with Heinrich. You got off easily. He could have simply "aligned" the car and charged you and you would have been pissed off like some people I know.
My rack has worn internal bushings. Nightmare alignment impossibility. I can't wait for my new rack. Until then it is vulgarity city potty mouth all day long in my car. *$%*$&#$%#!!**#%@! steering rack!!
Ron_H is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Car is 'unalignable'.....


Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: