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Car is 'unalignable'.....

Old 10-12-2006, 04:56 PM
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I think someone has experimented with WSM method of pulling car down to settle suspension. This result was that it didn't work totally. Meaning alignment was wrong after some driving even though ride height was correct when it was done. Can't remember where this was mentioned. I think its better just to drive for a while.
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:47 PM
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wow, that is more details than i know. I will let my brother know to come post here about how he rebuilt it as I have no clue.

I do not know if they lifted the front wheels when trying to align, but I guess I can go there and ask the guy. It was only a week ago, so I'm sure he'll remember. And I already know about DEVEK, it's just that I'm afraid I won't have any money in my bank account after I take it to them! I heard they are great, but pricey. I might be thinking of a VW shop though, as that is what I drive.
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Old 10-12-2006, 07:29 PM
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I previously had the same experience with worn internal rack bushings as Dave and Bill have discussed: with the car on an alignment rack, you can shift the toe from negative to positive ( toe-out) with hand pressure on the tie rod ends. This is "unalignable" .....
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Old 10-12-2006, 08:19 PM
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Or a bent frame will make it "unalignable"
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Old 10-12-2006, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 959Lover
I might be thinking of a VW shop though, as that is what I drive.
Hey, don't be so hard on yourself. a 959 might not be a shark, and of course it has the engine in the wrong place, but OTOH it's not so bad I'd be calling it a VW.
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Old 10-12-2006, 09:16 PM
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Here is a picture of the Porsche pull-down method from the WSM:
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Old 10-12-2006, 11:46 PM
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OK thanks all for posting. I'm 959's brother, who rebuilt the rack. Some of you may remember me asking where this or that seal or o-ring goes back on... and I posted a load of pictures of the rack guts. Anyway.

The 4 rack bushings were replaced with 928 motorsports solid aluminium bushings. I even coated them with resin so that when they slipped in, the hairwidth of a gap would be eliminated. It was a complete PITA to put the boots on, so I'd rather not tell my bro to take them off. If I had a hard time, he will rip them by trying.

I didn't have a crowfoot big enough for the inner tie rod joint, so I just used a crescent wrench and made them really tight. I've been wrenching long enough to be able to feel torque, to an accuracy of 25%. I got at least 80 lb-ft on there. I know that might not be enough, but that wouldn't cause so much play that a shop couldn't align it. When I had the tie rods out, I tested the inner joints by jiggling and push/pulling on the rod and joint. There was no play at all. I tried to put fresh moly grease in the joint, but it was so tight I couldn't even get grease in there. So I just coated it with grease and rolled it around for a few minutes until it looked nice and greasy.

I told my bro not to take it to Midas, but when he told me it was the closest shop, and considering the car was not registered or insured yet, and the tires are like almost a decade old, I didn't want him to drive it any farther than he had to. Still, it was a mistake.

A friend of mine had a bad experience with Devek, specifically while getting an alignment. I've done business with them before and they're nice folks, but I think I'd rather just have a basic suspension shop take care of this. It's not like I'm telling a gas-station mechanic to do the timing belt.

I took my sweet time (3 weeks) rebuilding that rack, so I could make sure I did everything right and complete. I followed info on rennbay, arnnworx, rennlist, and the WSM, took pictures, and cut no corners. I know the rack is fine. I'm sure another shop will align it without issues....

Ashkan, don't take it to a VW mechanic - that's useless. Take it to a suspension shop. Those guys probably know more about the 928 suspension than the current Porsche techs anyway.
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Old 10-12-2006, 11:57 PM
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Oh, and I replaced the driver side inner rack bushing (the one that goes between the tie rod and the rack). That one was COMPLETELY disintegrated from the leaking PS fluid. It was gone. The passenger side bushing was dry and looked good so I just reused it. One of the only parts I reused in the whole job.

Maybe he just needs to drive it for 100 miles so things can settle.

Good thing I fixed the odo while I was at it.
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Old 10-13-2006, 09:16 AM
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The factory pull down method works fine ...If you follow the instructions, including setting the proper ride height.I've used it for 16 years aligning 928's and have never had any tire problems on those cars caused by alignment
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Old 10-13-2006, 01:03 PM
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Can we interest you in relocating to the friendly, exciting, wonderful, pleasant San Francisco Bay Area? Good weather, lots of fun things to do, and lots of Porsches to align.
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Old 10-13-2006, 01:15 PM
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Glad this came up, I'm about to go get an alignment done. I was told that the best alignment was done without lifting the car. Sears has the unit wear the car stays on the platform and the platform is lifted, keeping the cars weight on the front end.

Is this really the best way?
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Old 10-13-2006, 01:47 PM
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Be careful of the statement "The car stays on the platform" I have aligned 928s before and the trick is in mounting the alignment heads and getting them compensated for wheel runout without lifting the wheels off the ground. Most alignment shops have never done this before and will give you that strange look. They will also tell you they lift it at the outer suspension points so it is still loaded but this is not the same as not lifting it at all. I have also used the WSM compressing method with good results but if the car has been on a lift for a day or so I prefer to have them drive it a couple of days to have it settle properly.
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Old 10-13-2006, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ObiWonPimpNobi
Glad this came up, I'm about to go get an alignment done. I was told that the best alignment was done without lifting the car. Sears has the unit wear the car stays on the platform and the platform is lifted, keeping the cars weight on the front end.

Is this really the best way?
I had mine aligned at Sears. Everything was done correctly. I also printed out the pages from the WSM and gave them to the tech guy. Go early, as soon as they open. They won't be busy and will take their time. I have heard that some Sears stores may not want to align the 928, but I had no problems with mine.

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Old 10-13-2006, 03:47 PM
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I think on the Hunter 4000 there is no need to lift the car except to inspect the suspension parts for looseness. So, that is the problem. I wouldn't blame the alignment guys for insisting they get to inspect the balljoints, wheelbearings, tie rods, rack and steering column for looseness. If you can do this adequately w/o lifting the car, great, but lifting the car is part of that inspection. Lucky me, the guy lifted the car found looseness. We took the car off the rack and I went him to repair that. Came back a week later and the guy accepted I had repaired it and aligned the car w/o lifting.
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Old 10-13-2006, 09:36 PM
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Anyone have good/bad experiences getting an alignment at their local Porsche dealer? Or has aligning a shark become a "lost art" to most of them?
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