Tom. M

OK...this is really weird......

A few weeks ago, I drove my car around without issue. Got home...and proceeded to wash it etc...After drying it off, I get in to fire it up..so I can put it in the garage. Well..turn the key...nothing..all lights etc work fine, but when I turn the key to the starter postion...everything dims....but no cranking. I am thinking starter went since it has been making some noise while starting (as in doesn't let loose right after the engine fires). So ...off to ebay to pick up a lightweight unit. Get it and put it on...no change..same scenario as above. So..I wiggle the key a bit and all of a sudden it starts to crank. Good I think...well haha..turn the key off..and pull it out..but ..dang the car is still cranking....I jump out of the car to the back..and proceed to pull the neg cable bolt..(that bolt sure takes a long time to come out)..and it gets really hot from all the current...but I get it off..and notice some smoke coming from the engine bay....I think it was from the front drivers side (alt area).......

My next step was to replace the ignition switch...thinking it was bad..well..did that..and same problem...as soon as I connect the neg terminal on the battery..it starts to crank regardless of whether or not the key is in or even turned..

So..any suggestions??????I'm stumped... I looked thoroughly at the harness across the front of the car and couldn't see anything obvious...
Has anyone had this happen...did I connect the starter wrong??? It had one large bolt and one smaller spade connector, which correspond to the two big cables and the smaller one on the car...

Am I possibly shorting the starter somehow?...I'm going to look closely under there tonight..but don't think anything is touching... I have heard there is a way to short the terminals on the starter to get it to crank..?...

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions are all welcome..

Thanks,
Tom
89GT..with the auto crank feature....

Bill Ball

Jim?....Jim?

Relay XIV.

Maybe not, but it's a good start, so to speak.

Ketchmi

I'd pull the starter relay first and see if it still wanted to crank. (number 14 or XIV on the 89') Relays do have a way of burning the contacts together.

If it still wants to roll, then it's probably the starter.

Ketchmi

Shoulda' known...beat to the punch by Bill again!

Tom. M

forgot to mention...swapped relay with similar one...same situation.....
I'll look at the starter contacts next..
Keep the suggestions coming....thanks...
Tom

Tom. M

Well....the relay post got me thinking....even though the relays looked the same...maybe the adjacent one (can't remember which one it was)...was marginal or whatever..so I swapped them back...

and WOOOOHOOOOOOO>>!!!!!!!! no auto crank..and turn the key...everything works great....and the I even have that nice Honda cranking sound now..hahahaha...

Thanks for the suggestions guys...Bill....I'll buy you a beer at Sharktoberfest......and Dave..If you make it down....there's a brew for you too....

Later,
Tom
89GT

Alan

Yes - starter relay or if not that then look for a short on the wire to the starter solenoid...

When the lights dimmed the first time - something was going on - like a big short.. Lights dim either when resistance in the line goes up or when the current goes up enough that the batteries internal resistance acts the same way. (The later in your case - becuse it went on to crank like crazy...)

It takes a heck of a lot of current to do that to a bettery. Before you go too far here I'd pull the central electric panel and take a look at the back... look OK?

The starter circuit is not fused so very nasty things may have happened...

Next pull the starter relay & disconnect the starter solenoid and check that the solenoid wire is floating... it should be - if it has low resistance to ground you need to find out why before you fry something else...

Try reconneting the battery with this wire removed - does it crank? if yes the solenoid must be jammed on/engaged...

What have you done to the car recently -- think?

Alan

Tom. M

Thanks for the tips Alan, i will look closer at the fuse panel and the wiring harnes once I get the pod and everything back together. It fired up perfectly and ran fine, no unusual noises or smells etc...but I didn't run it for long.

The odd thing is that the only thing I have done to the car recently was wash it (I do have a rep for driving a "dirty" 928 up here in the pacnw..so washing the car could be concieved as odd hahahah)...but aside from that...I did snip the wiring harness in the doors to the mirrors when I put on the aero mirrors...they were left loose for now..awaiting Goldknight to finish up the wiring job...

Anyway..glad its working now ..have some new parts..and getting ready for our bi-annual Track Attack in Spokane, WA the weekend of the 16th (Sept)...anyone and everyone is welcome to stop by and check out the action...

later,
Tom

Alan

Humm... Your original problem was either the old starter (I'd test it - carefully) or something else.

I know you aren't going to like this - but I suspect its going to happen again.

Since it seems that battery was actually good... maybe some other connection is a bit dodgy. I'd clean the battery strap ground and the battery terminals - I'd also wonder if the ground strap might be a problem..

Hope it doesn't recur...

Alan

Scott M.

Tom;

I would very carfully inspect the wire harness that runs across the front of the engine. The main one that runs from the starter to the jump start terminal. I bet you have a short in it. Ask Mike Speigle what happened to his 86.5 at S-fest in '04.

Scott

SharkSkin

You might want to pop that relay can open and see if it looks like the contacts have welded. If so, replace. You might have jarred it loose when you changed relays, in which case the contacts are just waiting for an entertaining moment to weld themselves back together.... Which might be the one time your foot slips off the clutch while you turn the key and have it in gear.

Tom. M

So, put the dash back together with new switch and new bulbs...and drove the car around for a good bit today...No issues at all, starter worked like intended..no odd smells..everything as it was...

I am betting my prob was a combo of relay and ignition switch......I will get a new relay soon just for good measure. The lightweight starter sound is tough to get used to.....it sure is an odd honda sounding noise.. ...haha...

That's it for now...
later,
Tom

Bill Ball

As Alan said, the initial problem cannot be due to the relay. And even if the starter was drawing a lot of current, the relay is insulated from that by the solenoid circuit (Alan, jump in to clarify/correct). So, the relay wouldn't get fried by that. However, the relay could have been stuck coincidentally.

SharkSkin

Yeah the relay would not cause the initial problem, but it's entirely possible that a 17 year old relay could randomly choose that moment to weld it's old, pitted contacts together. If so, I'm sure it had a good laugh at the ensuing mayhem, and it may be lurking and waiting for a good time for an encore. It's the most likely cause for the non-stop starting that you mentioned, since the other set of contacts most likely to weld and produce those symptoms -- the contacts in the solenoid -- were replaced.

Tom. M

I fully expect the prob was the switch in the car..since I swapped the starter..then the relay...and nothing changed...until I wiggled the key..then the relay (not original one..one I swapped in from a neighboring position) probably welded it'self and the starter just started to crank. I swapped out the switch (which probably started working after I wiggled the key in it) and same conditions occurred until I put in the original relay (which probably never had a prob to begin with)..I'll have to check the relay I swapped in...to see what's up with that one..

So current situation is new starter, new switch, original relay. Also, the old starter could have been on it's way out anyway since it always ran on a bit after starting the car(not letting loose after the engine started)..but only for 1 or 2 secs. I suppose that could have been switch related too..

Either way, once I get a new relay in there I think most of the suspects in the case have been replaced..and barring a major wiring harness issue, I think it's solved.

Thanks,
Tom