A look into Todds garage - 7 & 5.5 liter boosted motors in the making
#16
Originally Posted by Herr-Kuhn
What is the lifespan of the steel cylinders? They would be good candidates for the Nikasil plating to assist with longevity. Now...the 6 liter with twin turbos, that would be a handful!
#17
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From: Up Nort
Originally Posted by Herr-Kuhn
What is the lifespan of the steel cylinders? They would be good candidates for the Nikasil plating to assist with longevity.
Not to mention Todd is not the biggest fan of any type of plating for multiple reasons. He would never coat an engine of his own.
#19
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From: Up Nort
I forgot to add, this motor:
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/239222-110mm-bore-928-engine-project-plans-for-a-7-4-liter-in-the-works.html
has logged about 4,000 miles already in the red car shown on the lift in the initial post.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/239222-110mm-bore-928-engine-project-plans-for-a-7-4-liter-in-the-works.html
has logged about 4,000 miles already in the red car shown on the lift in the initial post.
#20
Remember Hacker...there is also heat transfer and piston to wall clearance. My guess if this engine is using JE 2618 pistons there will be at least 0.004" piston to wall. With the Nikasil on Al you can run down to 0.002"
#21
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From: Up Nort
Originally Posted by Sterling
wear is not the only reaso to nikasil the cylinder bores.... it has better lubricity properties.... less friction... the nascar guys are using nikasil bores.. and you can bet they are after ever pony available.
Originally Posted by Herr-Kuhn
Remember Hacker...there is also heat transfer and piston to wall clearance. My guess if this engine is using JE 2618 pistons there will be at least 0.004" piston to wall. With the Nikasil on Al you can run down to 0.002"
Any possible long term issues are a major factor to him. Gaining a few extra HP doing something that could possibly shorten the life of the motor is not an option to him. He has built race engines for people that were plated – he’s just not going to plate any of his own.
Last edited by hacker-pschorr; 08-14-2006 at 12:02 PM.
#23
omg... I can't handle this... I'm WAY excited for all these developments! I wonder though why he spent all that time and money building this monster motor, and went with a centrifugal supercharger? TT would require more work, but at that level, its kind of moot :^).
For a little bit I thought, why would you bore everything out when you can get loads of power from 5 liters with proper tuning. Then I thought, well I suppose if you're going to lower compression, you'd get new pistons, then you could sleeve for strength, then you might as well make them gigantic... I like this guy!
But 7.4 liters? Thats 158ci over the stock 5l!!! This is awesome!
For a little bit I thought, why would you bore everything out when you can get loads of power from 5 liters with proper tuning. Then I thought, well I suppose if you're going to lower compression, you'd get new pistons, then you could sleeve for strength, then you might as well make them gigantic... I like this guy!
But 7.4 liters? Thats 158ci over the stock 5l!!! This is awesome!
#24
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From: Up Nort
Originally Posted by Barry Johnson
omg... I can't handle this... I'm WAY excited for all these developments! I wonder though why he spent all that time and money building this monster motor, and went with a centrifugal supercharger? TT would require more work, but at that level, its kind of moot :^).
Todd is a fan of anything that produces more hp, including turbo’s. He has a ton of experience with both systems, with 911 race cars to the motorcycle he built over 20 years ago with a Vortech supercharger. I’m sure some day he will play with turbo’s on a 928 – the exhaust you see on the car is 100% made by him. I’m sure he could probably have a set of turbo’s hung on the car and plumed with intercoolers in a day.
Originally Posted by Barry Johnson
For a little bit I thought, why would you bore everything out when you can get loads of power from 5 liters with proper tuning. Then I thought, well I suppose if you're going to lower compression, you'd get new pistons, then you could sleeve for strength, then you might as well make them gigantic... I like this guy!
#25
Originally Posted by Barry Johnson
I wonder though why he spent all that time and money building this monster motor, and went with a centrifugal supercharger?
Under hard acceleration, my 5.0 Liter GT already spins it's wheels in first and second, why would one want more low-end than that? I certainly don't, and I can't imagine what a 7.0 Liter would be like, and I mean without the centrifugal bolted on.
With a V8 under max acceleration, it's all about beefing up mid and top-end power production, right where a centrifugal delivers.
TT would require more work
On a 4 or 6 cylinder street-car, I would definitely want a positive displacement blower, or a turbo, because those engines need the added low-end. Has anyone driven a 951 off-boost? It's a painful experience...
On an all-out racecar with everything on the line, there's no doubt a turbo with an air/air intercooler is the way to go.
But on a street V8 such as an S4, I'll take the centrifugal as it's power delivery is absolutely perfect by minimizing wheelspin, and likewise maximizing all-important hook-up, thus accelerating as hard as un-humanly possible.
The icing on the V8-cake is the centrifugal's all-important SIMPLICITY.
But that's just my take on things.
#26
Hacker,
Any photos showing more how he's drilling the cranks? Like with a pencil sticking through it?
Does Todd drill those himself or farm it out?
Funny, I think I met this guy at RA a few weeks back. "Glen, this is Todd." Just didn't click. JLPs former espresso brown car?
Any photos showing more how he's drilling the cranks? Like with a pencil sticking through it?
Does Todd drill those himself or farm it out?
Funny, I think I met this guy at RA a few weeks back. "Glen, this is Todd." Just didn't click. JLPs former espresso brown car?
#28
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From: Up Nort
Originally Posted by GlenL
Any photos showing more how he's drilling the cranks? Like with a pencil sticking through it?
Does Todd drill those himself or farm it out?
Does Todd drill those himself or farm it out?
Originally Posted by GlenL
Funny, I think I met this guy at RA a few weeks back. "Glen, this is Todd." Just didn't click. JLPs former espresso brown car?
#29
Sway Bar...please explain how a CS minimizes wheelspin in its power delivery. It has no regard for engine load whatsoever. I'd challenge you that a turbo offers far, far better power delivery than a CS. If you size it for the application (V8 here) the turbo can be made to not deliver full tilt in 1st gear...you don't need it all there anyway. Then when the car is on full tilt and loads are high you get all your boost as soon as you call for it with your right foot. Many people have not grasped this concept and just assume to turbo gives too much mid range everywhere....the correct statement is the turbo offers great boost modulation through proper sizing for the application. That is because boost levels depend on load, not just RPM. It is the key advantage to the turbocharger. The CS boosts the same curve in all gears...too much when you don't need it (known as 1st gear) and not enough when you do (3rd on up). Then there is wear...a turbo will outlast all other forms of forced induction when applied properly. I have a turbocharged Audi with 260,000 on the clock. Show me any CS that has lasted that long. So your statements about simplicity are also misleading.
Clearly there are some fundamentals of forced induction that are simply not understood by people who post on this board.
Regardless this post is about internal engine work and this work is very impressive.
Clearly there are some fundamentals of forced induction that are simply not understood by people who post on this board.
Regardless this post is about internal engine work and this work is very impressive.
#30
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From: Up Nort
Knock it off - myself and I'm sure 99% of the people here are sick of the turbo vs. blower ****.
Todd used a blower because he wanted to - plain and simple. It's his project, his car, his money and his time. I'm only sharing this since I feel most are interested in any development with the 928 world & Todd is a very open person about his projects.
If it were not for Tim, Todd, Carl, and Jim Page (and others, not trying to write an Oscar speech) - there would be 40+ 928's still running around with stock power who are now enjoying far more HP than that factory ever offered. Everyone I have had contact with is damn happy with their setup - they could care less about the "other" setups. What they have works very well, accomplishes what they wanted - a faster 928. It's that simple.
Todd used a blower because he wanted to - plain and simple. It's his project, his car, his money and his time. I'm only sharing this since I feel most are interested in any development with the 928 world & Todd is a very open person about his projects.
If it were not for Tim, Todd, Carl, and Jim Page (and others, not trying to write an Oscar speech) - there would be 40+ 928's still running around with stock power who are now enjoying far more HP than that factory ever offered. Everyone I have had contact with is damn happy with their setup - they could care less about the "other" setups. What they have works very well, accomplishes what they wanted - a faster 928. It's that simple.