CHRIS-90GT

HEY GUYS! MY 1990 GT HAS R-12 FOR A/C REFRIGERANT. RECHARGED IT TWO WEEKS AGO WITH R-12 AND WAS RUNNING COLD UNTIL THIS WEEKEND. I MUST HAVE A LEAK. IF I GO TO A PORSHE DEALERSHIP TO FIX IT, THEY WILL HAVE TO CHANGE ME OVER TO R-134. I HAVE HEARD THAT THE 928'S DON'T REALLY LIKE THE R-134? AT A CROSSROAD. DOES ANYBODY HAVE R-134 IN THEIR CAR? ANY COMMENTS +/- . THANKS!

NickT

(CAP lock off please.......)

I have R-134 in mine and no issues.. I also had a new compressor and expansion valve done at the same time.. but it's cold...

There are other things to check.. Is the compressor running? You might have an issue with the famous "blue relay" in the control head... Also check the anti-freeze switch to make sure it is working.. There are a few things to check before assuming it all leaked out.

OpusX67

Switched over to R-134 back in 2003 in my '91GT; no problems thus far.

ROG100

IMPO your car was designed for R12 so stick with R12. R134a is more efficient than R12 but in a system designed for R134a. As NickT states you can make the swop and providing you are not looking for absolute max performance (living in the desert) you should be OK.
Contrary to popular belief R12 is readily available at your local Napa and Autozone for $20/can. However you have to have a cert to purchase it.
My 93 GTS has 134a, however it came from the factory like that and because the system was designed for that freon it will freeze your B***s off.
I would think that a good Porsche shop would do a professional conversion and fix your leaks for you as well. However ask then why they can't stick with R12 (apart from the cost) as most shops can do both.
Unless you want to get into messing with your own HVAC system leave it to them. Worst case they would have to swap it back to R12.

jyoon

i have 134a and it works fine. if i had a choice, i would go with 134a. seems cold enough and much easier to "top off" when necessary. i guess it's also better for the environment. also had a 944 turbo that was converted to 134a. again, a/c seemed cold enough. i don't think you're realy gonna notice any difference.

RDS928S

Chris,

fix the leak and keep the R12.
Try www.duracool.com
They have R-12 replacements and two leak seal products (SystemSeal & SealQuick) that work great.
My R-12 system leaked badly and required multiple refills during the summer until I used the "SystemSeal" and Duracool 12A freon.
The site glass is bubble free now.

RDS

ROG100

RDS experiance is good info, however if you are not doing it yourself Porsche or a good shop will not make that change for you due to contamination of different freon types in the recovery equipment.

cobalt

If your car started out with R12 stay with it. If you know someone with an HVAC license Graingers sells R12 in 30 pound containers for $50. $48 if you buy 10 or more. There is no reason why these guys should be ripping people off by charging the $12 a pound.

The other disadvantage of 134a over 12 is that the 134a needs the engine to be turning at higher rpm to work effectively. The R12 will produce colder air at idle than 134a but once moving a well maintained 134a system will chill you to the bone.

I believe there is a new product out that does not require a license to buy that is better for the R 12 systems IIRC it is called Autofrost.

johnf95111

A common source of leaks on our gems are due to failing Orings. The old black Orings fail due to heat, age and oil. I am in the process of changing all the Orings in my system with the up to date blue or green Orings (I haven't seen them yet, just going by what I've read). I'm also going to replace the drier and one expansion valve. I've got my PET and am assembling a list.

When done, I'll pump it full with 2lbs of R-12 and the system should be happy for years to come.

Cheers,

John Fagerlund
'89GT

ROG100

Anthony I need the number of your local Graingers because R12 30Lb containers are $300/350 here in TX.
Are you sure you got that right? If you did I need about 10 of them and I will pay shipping. I have the required Cert. Are you willing to help?

cobalt

I was in their about a month or so back and they had them stacked to the roof. It might have been a local or pre season special but they had it for that price last year also.

You can try this number but I believe it will only get you to a central office. (201) 864-4455.

I remember paying almost $800 for 30 pounds at one time. Haven't seen pricing over $100 in a long time.

ROG100

I called a couple of your local NJ branches. Very hard to get in 30lb cans but they have two for $220 a container.
Thats not a bad price but with shipping not so good.
Interesting that R134a is $330 for a 30lb can.
Here it is way less than $100.

Bill Ball

I would recommend staying far away from Duracool.
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html

Louis had a rip-roaring fire with a similar propane/butane (lighter fluid) product when a hose leaked.

Many people have converted to R-134. I've heard some AC techs describe that the evaporator is not sized properly for R-134a. Regardless, conversion requires flushing the system, replacing the oil, replacing the seals, and maybe a few other parts. If I just had a couple of leaky seals, I'd stick with R-12. Porsche may not do R-12 anymore, but most AC techs will.

cobalt

My bad. You were right I was mistaking the pricing for R22, R12 is still high.

ROG100

Anthony,
No problem - you had my $ eyes flashing for a moment as R12 sells for up to $400 on eBay and I could see an opportunity looming.
Roger