Turbo vs. S/C
07-19-2006, 02:09 PM
#46
Alot of japanese and smaller german cars seem to do very well with chemical intercooling, which is the injection of water and or methanol into the intake tract to cool it past ambient.
07-19-2006, 02:13 PM
#47
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Here is an interesting article comparing the Eaton, TS & Vortech.
http://www.kennebell.net/media/artic...TBASHpart2.pdf
http://www.kennebell.net/media/artic...TBASHpart2.pdf
07-19-2006, 02:21 PM
#48
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Larry,
Define 'a number of people'... I know of only 2 'Listers running non ic'd & over 6psi. I follow the FI threads pretty close but maybe I missed something. I don't consider running high boost, non ic'd, for the sake of a dyno run to be the norm.
Also, I never said it wouldn't work, I said I wouldn't do it and the margin for error is much too low for me.
Define 'a number of people'... I know of only 2 'Listers running non ic'd & over 6psi. I follow the FI threads pretty close but maybe I missed something. I don't consider running high boost, non ic'd, for the sake of a dyno run to be the norm.
Also, I never said it wouldn't work, I said I wouldn't do it and the margin for error is much too low for me.
Originally Posted by Larry928GTS
And there are a number of individuals on this board who are running and have run boost without an intercooler that would agree. That's in addition to Vortech also saying the same thing. I guess that depends on what you consider "significant boost" though. Different people on here have gained between 100-150rwhp without any intercooling. I consider that significant.
There are quite a few non-intercooled supercharger kits available for other types of cars that have 10:1 or even higher compression ratios. There's a lot more than boost level and compression ratio that determines if detonation will occur or not.
People on here have done it without problems, and are still doing it without problems. You can believe them, or you can believe those who've never even tried it and say it can't work.
There are quite a few non-intercooled supercharger kits available for other types of cars that have 10:1 or even higher compression ratios. There's a lot more than boost level and compression ratio that determines if detonation will occur or not.
People on here have done it without problems, and are still doing it without problems. You can believe them, or you can believe those who've never even tried it and say it can't work.
07-19-2006, 02:28 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by pmotts
Here is an interesting article comparing the Eaton, TS & Vortech.
http://www.kennebell.net/media/artic...TBASHpart2.pdf
http://www.kennebell.net/media/artic...TBASHpart2.pdf
07-19-2006, 02:30 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by pmotts
Here is an interesting article comparing the Eaton, TS & Vortech.
http://www.kennebell.net/media/artic...TBASHpart2.pdf
http://www.kennebell.net/media/artic...TBASHpart2.pdf
The 928 CS kits retain the factory manifold. This test is not a very good apples to apples shootout when compared to the 928 kits on the market.
If you want a true 928 comparison, just look at the dyno sheets that have been posted by Andrew Olsen and some of Tim Murphys customers. Once we have a dyno sheet for a turbo S4 - we can throw that into the mix.
07-19-2006, 02:30 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by pmotts
Here is an interesting article comparing the Eaton, TS & Vortech.
http://www.kennebell.net/media/artic...TBASHpart2.pdf
http://www.kennebell.net/media/artic...TBASHpart2.pdf
07-19-2006, 02:32 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by Tim Murphy
The article is too blurry for me to read.
Then again, my eyes are 10 years younger
Originally Posted by Tim Murphy
Why do you think Kenne Bell advertises this article? He wants to replace the factory Eaton/Roots with his twin screw.
07-19-2006, 02:36 PM
#54
Three Wheelin'
pmotts,
Great link. Thanks. Do you have the Part 1 story? The Roots M112 is clearly beyond capacity as they try to increase the boost beyond the 11.7 psi. Basically, a pointless excercise to study it in that environment except that it validates that you shouldn't waste your time trying to boost at that level with the M112. Better study would have been a larger capacity Roots blower. Anyhow, I would like to see how it performed compared to the others at the 11.7 psi boost level, which I guess is the Story Part 1.
The story basically confirms the theory about the monster torque down low on the positive displacement blowers vs the trade off of maximizing HP albeit over a narrow high rpm range on the centrifugal SC or turbo. Great tool for a 928er trying to make a boost decision.
Great link. Thanks. Do you have the Part 1 story? The Roots M112 is clearly beyond capacity as they try to increase the boost beyond the 11.7 psi. Basically, a pointless excercise to study it in that environment except that it validates that you shouldn't waste your time trying to boost at that level with the M112. Better study would have been a larger capacity Roots blower. Anyhow, I would like to see how it performed compared to the others at the 11.7 psi boost level, which I guess is the Story Part 1.
The story basically confirms the theory about the monster torque down low on the positive displacement blowers vs the trade off of maximizing HP albeit over a narrow high rpm range on the centrifugal SC or turbo. Great tool for a 928er trying to make a boost decision.
07-19-2006, 02:37 PM
#55
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How is that any different than posting Vortech's findings? 
Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr
I keep telling you to buy a bigger / nicer monitor. I can read it just fine
Then again, my eyes are 10 years younger
So it's a profit deal? Imagine that
Then again, my eyes are 10 years younger
So it's a profit deal? Imagine that
07-19-2006, 02:39 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by pmotts
It was just a comparo, Apples to apples is hard to find. The CS won the HP war, easily Yours is bigger
Yours is bigger Anyway - it is a good test, but flawed for the CS crowd. Just wanted to point that out since many will overlook that part (bottom of the article). It seams weird to pull off the factory blower and install a Vortech pushing through the twin screw intercooler and intake. Anyone wanting to own a Vortech Supercharged Mustang should be a N/A version - then install the kit. It would be a lot cheaper vs. spending the extra money for the Ford unit, then taking it off.
07-19-2006, 02:40 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by pmotts
How is that any different than posting Vortech's findings?
07-19-2006, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Cameron
The story basically confirms the theory about the monster torque down low on the positive displacement blowers vs the trade off of maximizing HP albeit over a narrow high rpm range on the centrifugal SC or turbo. Great tool for a 928er trying to make a boost decision.
07-19-2006, 02:42 PM
#59
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I thought it was interesting. Here is Part 1. http://www.kennebell.net/media/artic...TBASHpart1.pdf
Disclaimer- pasting this link does not in any way mean to insinuate that one system is better than another. We all know the system you own is the best
Disclaimer- pasting this link does not in any way mean to insinuate that one system is better than another. We all know the system you own is the best
Originally Posted by Cameron
pmotts,
Great link. Thanks. Do you have the Part 1 story? The Roots M112 is clearly beyond capacity as they try to increase the boost beyond the 11.7 psi. Basically, a pointless excercise to study it in that environment except that it validates that you shouldn't waste your time trying to boost at that level with the M112. Better study would have been a larger capacity Roots blower. Anyhow, I would like to see how it performed compared to the others at the 11.7 psi boost level, which I guess is the Story Part 1.
The story basically confirms the theory about the monster torque down low on the positive displacement blowers vs the trade off of maximizing HP albeit over a narrow high rpm range on the centrifugal SC or turbo. Great tool for a 928er trying to make a boost decision.
Great link. Thanks. Do you have the Part 1 story? The Roots M112 is clearly beyond capacity as they try to increase the boost beyond the 11.7 psi. Basically, a pointless excercise to study it in that environment except that it validates that you shouldn't waste your time trying to boost at that level with the M112. Better study would have been a larger capacity Roots blower. Anyhow, I would like to see how it performed compared to the others at the 11.7 psi boost level, which I guess is the Story Part 1.
The story basically confirms the theory about the monster torque down low on the positive displacement blowers vs the trade off of maximizing HP albeit over a narrow high rpm range on the centrifugal SC or turbo. Great tool for a 928er trying to make a boost decision.