Running rich and rough idle when engine is warm-follow up replaced MAF and WORSE!
05-12-2006, 07:35 PM
#48
Team Owner
Hey Bill, I dont see you ever getting too upset with anyone !, Jees, sorry you are spending your time feeling bad, however I guess that sometimes certain people can ruffle the feathers of even the most sedate and helpful people. The funny thing about people that are here to help is the fact that they do it because they care, it is helpfulness that comes from the heart........... not because they are looking to make the bottom line grow, but then of course the bottom liners will always reveal themselves, and in the long run they only damage their reputation and sink futher from the top.......
Bill get back to your cool mode , the 928 club needs your thoughts... I love you man!
Bill get back to your cool mode , the 928 club needs your thoughts... I love you man!
05-12-2006, 08:10 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by Mrmerlin
Hey Bill, I dont see you ever getting too upset with anyone !, Jees, sorry you are spending your time feeling bad, however I guess that sometimes certain people can ruffle the feathers of even the most sedate and helpful people. The funny thing about people that are here to help is the fact that they do it because they care, it is helpfulness that comes from the heart........... not because they are looking to make the bottom line grow, but then of course the bottom liners will always reveal themselves, and in the long run they only damage their reputation and sink futher from the top.......
Bill get back to your cool mode , the 928 club needs your thoughts... I love you man!
Bill get back to your cool mode , the 928 club needs your thoughts... I love you man!
05-12-2006, 08:38 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
Bill,
That individual has been a sour-puss to me and many other people either in need of help or trying to share. It's crumby. He has knowledge but at a cost.
Takes all kinds, and I guess everyone has their ***(ets).
Dave McK.
That individual has been a sour-puss to me and many other people either in need of help or trying to share. It's crumby. He has knowledge but at a cost.
Takes all kinds, and I guess everyone has their ***(ets).
Dave McK.
05-12-2006, 11:02 PM
#51
Under the Lift
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We've had incidents like this before that spun totally out of control, so I am very sensitive to vendors attacking each other - or, in this case, one vendor attacking two other vendors. When in the past it has involved one of the Big 3 (now 4 or 5), about whom there are very strong allegiances, this has led to partisan splits within the group that lead to wholesale bickering - more than bickering - outright war. One of the Big 3 (now 4 or 5) would accuse another of some nefarious deeds, and each with their own legions of supporters behind them, would wage war. Usually it was some ancient business dealing that went sour that essentially no one but them knew or cared about. These things got pretty evil and it shut down other discussion. Twinscrew against Vortech versus turbo is another example. Users of neither could say anything for fear of provoking heinous, often personal, attacks from the other side. Some people love to get involved in or watch these kinds of exchanges, but for the bulk of people who are here to garner useful information about their cars, this is extremely off-putting. Sure they can ignore the frays, but to the extent that these frays become the main topic, the board's usefulness is damaged.
I watched this guy's comments here, somewhat critical of what other vendors were offering up. I certainly have no problem with alternative suggestions and questioning the validity of what others suggest. That's how you learn. But at one point his responses became nothing but attacks on the moral character of the others, despite the fact that those he attacked had not done anything more to provoke him. And there is a lot that could be used in a counterattack, if you look at his website and the rather generic Haynes Guide-like decision tree flow chart he keeps promoting as if it has all the answers. I found it just too incongruous and irritating that he focused on accusing them of trying to sell their wares, as if he was not a vendor who had any interest in doing the same. Anyway, if I were message board admin, he would be out of here, sponsor or not. I don't expect vendors ever to express brotherly love for each other. They are inherently in competition with each other. I don't want this group to become bland and mediocre and not have serious disagreements and tense exchanges. However, the kind of behavior in this thread is totally unacceptable for the reasons I give above.
The guy that started this thread is looking for help, not vendors wailing on each other or one vendor wailing on two others. If one vendor thinks the others' suggestions are wrong, great, say so and give some better ideas. Accusations beyond that were not only unjustified in this case but are uncalled for in general. (Stepping down from soapbox)
I watched this guy's comments here, somewhat critical of what other vendors were offering up. I certainly have no problem with alternative suggestions and questioning the validity of what others suggest. That's how you learn. But at one point his responses became nothing but attacks on the moral character of the others, despite the fact that those he attacked had not done anything more to provoke him. And there is a lot that could be used in a counterattack, if you look at his website and the rather generic Haynes Guide-like decision tree flow chart he keeps promoting as if it has all the answers. I found it just too incongruous and irritating that he focused on accusing them of trying to sell their wares, as if he was not a vendor who had any interest in doing the same. Anyway, if I were message board admin, he would be out of here, sponsor or not. I don't expect vendors ever to express brotherly love for each other. They are inherently in competition with each other. I don't want this group to become bland and mediocre and not have serious disagreements and tense exchanges. However, the kind of behavior in this thread is totally unacceptable for the reasons I give above.
The guy that started this thread is looking for help, not vendors wailing on each other or one vendor wailing on two others. If one vendor thinks the others' suggestions are wrong, great, say so and give some better ideas. Accusations beyond that were not only unjustified in this case but are uncalled for in general. (Stepping down from soapbox)
Last edited by Bill Ball; 05-13-2006 at 06:03 AM.
05-13-2006, 02:10 AM
#52
It appears that many have forgotten how this thread started and what happened to
the basically new to Rennlist (28 posts) thread starter:
"I got a rebuilt MAF and the car is running worse now! I am fully confident with the new MAF, so would this mean the LH computer?" - inokiyo -
So here the guy buys a MAF thinking that it's the source of his problem, i.e. who
knows why this decision was motivated, but it turned out to NOT be the problem
source.
Subsequently, we have posters promoting that he now consider having his LH ECM
rebuilt, not knowing conclusively whether this is really the problem source. Since
the guy basically wasted money on the MAF without any results, is it really in the
Rennlist forum approach to now prompt spending additional money for rebuilt parts?
Others on this thread, in addition to me, have also suggested that he obtain a loner
unit to eliminate the LH ECM as a problem source before spending money on a rebuilt
unit. This is REALLY what the issue is about! So, let's help this guy out by determining
the REAL problem source as typical Rennlist members always do.
As I and others have suggested in addition to a loner LH ECM:
1. check the fuel pressure & vacuum feeds
2. check the temp sensor (pin 13) from the LH conn.
3. check the O2 sensor (pin 24) from the LH conn.
4. check the LH grounds (pins 5 & 17) & engine grounds
5. check the MAF sensor ground back to the LH,
an offset voltage will cause a rich mixture
Bottom line: If the LH ECM is really the problem, either of the
"two" promoting a rebuilt unit now will be available with the truly
needed part then.
the basically new to Rennlist (28 posts) thread starter:
"I got a rebuilt MAF and the car is running worse now! I am fully confident with the new MAF, so would this mean the LH computer?" - inokiyo -
So here the guy buys a MAF thinking that it's the source of his problem, i.e. who
knows why this decision was motivated, but it turned out to NOT be the problem
source.
Subsequently, we have posters promoting that he now consider having his LH ECM
rebuilt, not knowing conclusively whether this is really the problem source. Since
the guy basically wasted money on the MAF without any results, is it really in the
Rennlist forum approach to now prompt spending additional money for rebuilt parts?
Others on this thread, in addition to me, have also suggested that he obtain a loner
unit to eliminate the LH ECM as a problem source before spending money on a rebuilt
unit. This is REALLY what the issue is about! So, let's help this guy out by determining
the REAL problem source as typical Rennlist members always do.
As I and others have suggested in addition to a loner LH ECM:
1. check the fuel pressure & vacuum feeds
2. check the temp sensor (pin 13) from the LH conn.
3. check the O2 sensor (pin 24) from the LH conn.
4. check the LH grounds (pins 5 & 17) & engine grounds
5. check the MAF sensor ground back to the LH,
an offset voltage will cause a rich mixture
Bottom line: If the LH ECM is really the problem, either of the
"two" promoting a rebuilt unit now will be available with the truly
needed part then.
Last edited by Lorenfb; 05-13-2006 at 02:51 AM.
05-13-2006, 03:51 AM
#53
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Hi guys,
....I am truly overwhelmed by the responses, suggestions, opinions, etc.
This message is just to let you know that I have been following this thread, and will respond to you guys appropriately; just have to think things over a bit.
Ken
....I am truly overwhelmed by the responses, suggestions, opinions, etc.
This message is just to let you know that I have been following this thread, and will respond to you guys appropriately; just have to think things over a bit.
Ken
05-13-2006, 12:34 PM
#55
Drifting
Speaking of Loner LH Brains and MAFs.... Since these are relatively difficult to diagnose and expensive to replace....
Why is it that "none" of the RENNLIST sponsors offer loner units?
It would be quite easy to make a LH Brain test unit that includes all the firmware variants and that could be configured by simple toggle switches.
I'd hate to think how many 928 owners unnecessarily have spares for "just in case".
Why is it that "none" of the RENNLIST sponsors offer loner units?
It would be quite easy to make a LH Brain test unit that includes all the firmware variants and that could be configured by simple toggle switches.
I'd hate to think how many 928 owners unnecessarily have spares for "just in case".
Last edited by borland; 05-13-2006 at 01:30 PM.
05-13-2006, 01:49 PM
#56
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
All this talk of "loner" units reminds me of the movie Hot Shots:
Topper Harley (Charlie Sheen): "I could never find time for love -- too heavy -- it's an anchor that drowns a man. Besides, I've got the sky, the smell of jet exhaust, my bike."
Friend: "A loner."
Topper: "No, I own it."
Loren's list of things to check looks good to me, but a) I think, because of the mode of failure (apparently heat-related) you're going to wind up at the LH eventually anyway; and b) Loren's input might be more constructive without passive-aggressive sniping at other sponsors.
Topper Harley (Charlie Sheen): "I could never find time for love -- too heavy -- it's an anchor that drowns a man. Besides, I've got the sky, the smell of jet exhaust, my bike."
Friend: "A loner."
Topper: "No, I own it."
Loren's list of things to check looks good to me, but a) I think, because of the mode of failure (apparently heat-related) you're going to wind up at the LH eventually anyway; and b) Loren's input might be more constructive without passive-aggressive sniping at other sponsors.
05-15-2006, 10:53 PM
#57
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Hi guys,
I have to say I am truly moved by the amount of responses I received on this thread; advice, sharing information and opinions to a complete stranger is something I wish I saw more in this world.
I know that it is very difficult to diagnose a problem on a vehicle without actually seeing it, (especially a 928). On top of this, I am an amateur when it comes to vehicle repair. Without taking the car to a mechanic, my only option is to seek advice from you guys. And I don't want to take my 928 to the mechanics anymore because from experience, you guys know a WHOLE lot more about this car.
The mechanic I took my 928 to said he knew all about the 928's, loves the car, but all he basically did was start replacing parts until the problem was solved!
Loren, Rich and John, I greatly appreciate your opinions and advice. You have been extremely helpful with providing me info, advice, suggestions, etc. And I know that you guys are here to provide 928 enthusiasts just that. You all have great feedback from the rennlisters.
I know for a fact that no one close by owns a 928, as I live in a town of 8500, and have been for 15 years. But I will definitely go through the tests you mentioned Loren (already done a few).
I've only been following the rennlist forums for a few months, so I don't really know what the relationship is between vendors that participate. But from my experience so far, I think all of you are true 928 enthusiasts. The information you provide is far more than just a sales call.
You are all true assets to the 928 group! Now let's have a few beers and get drunk!!
Ken
I have to say I am truly moved by the amount of responses I received on this thread; advice, sharing information and opinions to a complete stranger is something I wish I saw more in this world.
I know that it is very difficult to diagnose a problem on a vehicle without actually seeing it, (especially a 928). On top of this, I am an amateur when it comes to vehicle repair. Without taking the car to a mechanic, my only option is to seek advice from you guys. And I don't want to take my 928 to the mechanics anymore because from experience, you guys know a WHOLE lot more about this car.
The mechanic I took my 928 to said he knew all about the 928's, loves the car, but all he basically did was start replacing parts until the problem was solved!
Loren, Rich and John, I greatly appreciate your opinions and advice. You have been extremely helpful with providing me info, advice, suggestions, etc. And I know that you guys are here to provide 928 enthusiasts just that. You all have great feedback from the rennlisters.
I know for a fact that no one close by owns a 928, as I live in a town of 8500, and have been for 15 years. But I will definitely go through the tests you mentioned Loren (already done a few).
I've only been following the rennlist forums for a few months, so I don't really know what the relationship is between vendors that participate. But from my experience so far, I think all of you are true 928 enthusiasts. The information you provide is far more than just a sales call.
You are all true assets to the 928 group! Now let's have a few beers and get drunk!!
Ken
06-07-2006, 02:23 AM
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Hi Guys!!
I got my LH rebuilt by Rich, and the shark is running better than ever now!! Steady idle, clean burn (before, the plugs were always black with soot, now they are clean!)
Anybody who has the same problems, I would strongly recommend going through the diagnostics in this thread provided by John, Rich, and Loren.
John and Rich are truly here to assist us 928 owners, and I don't believe one bit that they are here to snag your business. Listen to them!
You guys are truly awesome!!
Ken
I got my LH rebuilt by Rich, and the shark is running better than ever now!! Steady idle, clean burn (before, the plugs were always black with soot, now they are clean!)
Anybody who has the same problems, I would strongly recommend going through the diagnostics in this thread provided by John, Rich, and Loren.
John and Rich are truly here to assist us 928 owners, and I don't believe one bit that they are here to snag your business. Listen to them!
You guys are truly awesome!!
Ken
06-07-2006, 05:58 AM
#60
Rennlist Member
Hi Ken
Glad to hear everything is sorted now ! Your old MAF must have been way out for there to have been such a big change when you fitted the rebuilt one...
Regards
Glad to hear everything is sorted now ! Your old MAF must have been way out for there to have been such a big change when you fitted the rebuilt one...
Regards