Nitrous Oxide on 928s ??
#31
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fwiw, GA planes I've flown/seen w/FI were all turbocharged/not supercharged... but it's a minor point as there were a few supercharged war birds back in the day.
I"ve been fiddling w/this for a month now myself.... wet single nozzle kits are < $550, and seem to go up to about 150hp... http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...6&autoview=sku I've got forged pistons and a monster bottom end, so I'm not too worried about overstressing anything but my fuel/NOS budget...
imo, dealing w/the friggin bottle is the bugger. it's gotta be well hidden on a street car in CA or the 1st impromptu inspection will result in bye bye shark/off to the impound. looks like I'll have to lose the rear seats and do a custom set of bottom/seat well covers, move some stereo stuff, bla, bla.... a pita, but when done will be pretty slick/clean...
keep us posted!!
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I"ve been fiddling w/this for a month now myself.... wet single nozzle kits are < $550, and seem to go up to about 150hp... http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...6&autoview=sku I've got forged pistons and a monster bottom end, so I'm not too worried about overstressing anything but my fuel/NOS budget...
imo, dealing w/the friggin bottle is the bugger. it's gotta be well hidden on a street car in CA or the 1st impromptu inspection will result in bye bye shark/off to the impound. looks like I'll have to lose the rear seats and do a custom set of bottom/seat well covers, move some stereo stuff, bla, bla.... a pita, but when done will be pretty slick/clean...
keep us posted!!
#32
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Rob, I don't know how safe it'd be, but you might be able to hide the bottle in one of the fenders behind the stock plastic panel. That would also make the hoses much easier to conceal.
#33
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was eyeing that spot the other day when it was up on a lift.... does seem to be some room there, probably rather have a bottle explode outside rather than in, but a leak inside would be more fun ![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
not too sure how easy filling the bottle would be though
maybe a fitting up front under the hood next to the AC condenser? then all I'd need is a fill station w/a long N0s hose, or a big doorway
the advantage to putting it in one of the rear seat bottoms is that it gets warm there from the exhaust, so I wouldn't need a bottle warmer/easy access for refills. there was a nice big space in the rear tire well too, till I stuffed a sub woofer there... I've been haggling w/the stereo guy about moving it, but he's whining.... we'll figure something out soon, but hooking up/hiding a single nozzle under the manifold/ next to the TBody looks pretty easy as is switch mounting, etc...
other concern is maintaining enough fuel pressure for WOT and the fogger system at the same time.... currently running 59lbs w/#24 injectors, but I'm not sure how much volume that old stock pump can do... iirc, theres a high flow bosch unit that'll fit where the stock unit goes, so it might be time for an upgrade... rather not do a seperate pump, for the sake of cleanliness![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
last concern is that most kits are for 5.8L max... I"ve got 6.5L, but I think worst case it'll just result in a few less ponies than advertised - probably not a big deal w/150hp kit as long as the AF is sane...
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not too sure how easy filling the bottle would be though
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the advantage to putting it in one of the rear seat bottoms is that it gets warm there from the exhaust, so I wouldn't need a bottle warmer/easy access for refills. there was a nice big space in the rear tire well too, till I stuffed a sub woofer there... I've been haggling w/the stereo guy about moving it, but he's whining.... we'll figure something out soon, but hooking up/hiding a single nozzle under the manifold/ next to the TBody looks pretty easy as is switch mounting, etc...
other concern is maintaining enough fuel pressure for WOT and the fogger system at the same time.... currently running 59lbs w/#24 injectors, but I'm not sure how much volume that old stock pump can do... iirc, theres a high flow bosch unit that'll fit where the stock unit goes, so it might be time for an upgrade... rather not do a seperate pump, for the sake of cleanliness
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
last concern is that most kits are for 5.8L max... I"ve got 6.5L, but I think worst case it'll just result in a few less ponies than advertised - probably not a big deal w/150hp kit as long as the AF is sane...
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#34
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NOS systems are the Bomb...you can call them for advice, use a wet system, single stage can go up to 150 easy, hook up the relays to ignition power source then your not dumping nitrous into the manifold when its not running. Most nitrous catatrophes are caused with a nitrous dump nto the intakes prior to ignition causing an explosion... Ran lots of nitrous in a previous life..., had a 944 with it...embarressed a lot of 951s. Do your clutch before installing the system. In a spider you could run individual foggers, it would look the bomb, otherwise you could do a 2 stage system. get electric fans, wire them to turn on when you arm the system..I'm considering nitorus on the 85S3 with the organ pipes.. but will have DR's system on the S4...Good luck.. nitrous is great because a stealth system done "right" really is a great sleeper for an extracurricular events that may involve a gentltman's wager!!!!!!!!! Ed M
#35
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NOS dump will not do anything but make things go WAY way lean. any "explosion" needs a proper fuel air mixture. actually, the Nitrogen in NOS is not only cold, but cusions the flame front. (as opposed to an equal mass flow of one due to turbo/supercharging or blowers.)
what causes burned pistons or burned valves, broken rings, etc. (common failures) is TOO much NOS and fuel for the engines mechanical limits. or a chance you have the mixture wrong at stoich.
my system worked perfect. proven by taking the engine apart after a year or two of using it. went through a lot of bottles. valves were brown and clean, pistons had the normal amount of carbon build up for a race car, no ill effects.
compression never varied. the reason the engine came out was for a blown head gasket, that was sealed by Barr's stop leak. Then, the 5 liter went in, and used NOS on it as well.
50hp to 100hp is no problem for a single fogger, piped into the plenum at some point before the spiders. otherwise, you need to do the 8 foggers.
No problem with fuel pressure to support an extra 50-100hp even with 59psi. I had 53psi and was running the 75hp shot with no issues. (however, only 285rwhp though)
Mk
what causes burned pistons or burned valves, broken rings, etc. (common failures) is TOO much NOS and fuel for the engines mechanical limits. or a chance you have the mixture wrong at stoich.
my system worked perfect. proven by taking the engine apart after a year or two of using it. went through a lot of bottles. valves were brown and clean, pistons had the normal amount of carbon build up for a race car, no ill effects.
compression never varied. the reason the engine came out was for a blown head gasket, that was sealed by Barr's stop leak. Then, the 5 liter went in, and used NOS on it as well.
50hp to 100hp is no problem for a single fogger, piped into the plenum at some point before the spiders. otherwise, you need to do the 8 foggers.
No problem with fuel pressure to support an extra 50-100hp even with 59psi. I had 53psi and was running the 75hp shot with no issues. (however, only 285rwhp though)
Mk
Originally Posted by Ed MD
NOS systems are the Bomb...you can call them for advice,.
..........Most nitrous catatrophes are caused with a nitrous dump nto the intakes prior to ignition causing an explosion... Ran lots of nitrous in a previous life..., had a 944 with it...........great sleeper for an extracurricular events that may involve a gentltman's wager!!!!!!!!! Ed M
..........Most nitrous catatrophes are caused with a nitrous dump nto the intakes prior to ignition causing an explosion... Ran lots of nitrous in a previous life..., had a 944 with it...........great sleeper for an extracurricular events that may involve a gentltman's wager!!!!!!!!! Ed M
#36
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semantics i know, but supercharging can be turbo or belt driven.
and there were quite a few driven superchargers (non turbo) used in aviation over the last 50 years.
MK
[QUOTE=928SS]fwiw, GA planes I've flown/seen w/FI were all turbocharged/not supercharged... but it's a minor point as there were a few supercharged war birds back in the day.
QUOTE]
and there were quite a few driven superchargers (non turbo) used in aviation over the last 50 years.
MK
[QUOTE=928SS]fwiw, GA planes I've flown/seen w/FI were all turbocharged/not supercharged... but it's a minor point as there were a few supercharged war birds back in the day.
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QUOTE]
#38
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1) I don't drive my shark very hard that often
2) I can't afford a Supercharger or a Turbo set up
3) Emissions control in my area includes visual inspection
If I saw a reliable wet 75-100 shot NOS installation on a S4, I might be tempted to copy it.
2) I can't afford a Supercharger or a Turbo set up
3) Emissions control in my area includes visual inspection
If I saw a reliable wet 75-100 shot NOS installation on a S4, I might be tempted to copy it.
#39
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Ive had it on the 4.7 and the 5 liter. only complexity on the S4 would be where you would want to put the nossil. probably the rubber duct below the MAF, would be easy. another way would be to tap a hole in the MAF below the hotwire, witih a nosil that pointed toward the engine and away from the hot wire.
mk
mk
Originally Posted by Steve 88
1) I don't drive my shark very hard that often
2) I can't afford a Supercharger or a Turbo set up
3) Emissions control in my area includes visual inspection
If I saw a reliable wet 75-100 shot NOS installation on a S4, I might be tempted to copy it.
2) I can't afford a Supercharger or a Turbo set up
3) Emissions control in my area includes visual inspection
If I saw a reliable wet 75-100 shot NOS installation on a S4, I might be tempted to copy it.
#40
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Originally Posted by mark kibort
Ive had it on the 4.7 and the 5 liter. only complexity on the S4 would be where you would want to put the nossil. probably the rubber duct below the MAF, would be easy. another way would be to tap a hole in the MAF below the hotwire, witih a nosil that pointed toward the engine and away from the hot wire.
mk
mk
Tapping the MAF would probably be the best, simplest and most reliable setup. Is the tread on the nozzle NTP?
#41
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it was a taper'ed male. I tapped a hole leading to the plennum where the A/C air injection used to be on the front of the plenum, (actually tapped the old plate that mounts to the plennum) strattling the two lines, fuel and NOS around the oil breather line. (tight , tight fit!) as you turn the NOS/Fuel nossil, it got tighter and tigher due to its taper'ed thread design. (Nitrous Express )
mk
mk
Originally Posted by Imo000
Tapping the MAF would probably be the best, simplest and most reliable setup. Is the tread on the nozzle NTP?
#42
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Hi Mark,
Im GETTING some of the parts I need at the moment..is a bottle heater needed ?
I plan on a 11 lb bottle mounted in luggage area at first ,then another matching 11lb bottle either next to it or on other side ...
Two questions....
1, Bottles next to each other or separated (better for temperature ?)
2, As my car is usally warm....around 70 F will I need a bottle heater or two or not at all ?
All the best Brett![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
928 S2 AUTO V8 4.7 LTR 1986 IRIS METALLIC BLUE WITH X-PIPES ,RMB ,PROMAX CHIPS, KICKDOWN SWITCH.K&N.
PCGB UK 928 FORUM MODERATOR
Im GETTING some of the parts I need at the moment..is a bottle heater needed ?
I plan on a 11 lb bottle mounted in luggage area at first ,then another matching 11lb bottle either next to it or on other side ...
Two questions....
1, Bottles next to each other or separated (better for temperature ?)
2, As my car is usally warm....around 70 F will I need a bottle heater or two or not at all ?
All the best Brett
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
928 S2 AUTO V8 4.7 LTR 1986 IRIS METALLIC BLUE WITH X-PIPES ,RMB ,PROMAX CHIPS, KICKDOWN SWITCH.K&N.
PCGB UK 928 FORUM MODERATOR
#43
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I found this interesting information..."German aviation engines were of the direct fuel injection type and could use emergency methanol-water and nitrous-oxide injection, which gave 50% more engine power for 5 minutes of dogfight. This could be done only five times and then the aero engine went to the scrapyard (or after 40 hours run-time, whichever came first). " ..... seems in that application you got 25 minutes with Nitrous or 40 HOURS without. But if some one was on your tail hit that button !!
#44
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Originally Posted by BRETT AINLEY
Hi Mark,
Im GETTING some of the parts I need at the moment..is a bottle heater needed ?
I plan on a 11 lb bottle mounted in luggage area at first ,then another matching 11lb bottle either next to it or on other side ...
Two questions....
1, Bottles next to each other or separated (better for temperature ?)
2, As my car is usally warm....around 70 F will I need a bottle heater or two or not at all ?
All the best Brett![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
928 S2 AUTO V8 4.7 LTR 1986 IRIS METALLIC BLUE WITH X-PIPES ,RMB ,PROMAX CHIPS, KICKDOWN SWITCH.K&N.
PCGB UK 928 FORUM MODERATOR
Im GETTING some of the parts I need at the moment..is a bottle heater needed ?
I plan on a 11 lb bottle mounted in luggage area at first ,then another matching 11lb bottle either next to it or on other side ...
Two questions....
1, Bottles next to each other or separated (better for temperature ?)
2, As my car is usally warm....around 70 F will I need a bottle heater or two or not at all ?
All the best Brett
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
928 S2 AUTO V8 4.7 LTR 1986 IRIS METALLIC BLUE WITH X-PIPES ,RMB ,PROMAX CHIPS, KICKDOWN SWITCH.K&N.
PCGB UK 928 FORUM MODERATOR
Jon
#45
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Originally Posted by BRETT AINLEY
Hi Mark,
Im GETTING some of the parts I need at the moment..is a bottle heater needed ?
Two questions....
1, Bottles next to each other or separated (better for temperature ?)
2, As my car is usally warm....around 70 F will I need a bottle heater or two or not at all ?
Im GETTING some of the parts I need at the moment..is a bottle heater needed ?
Two questions....
1, Bottles next to each other or separated (better for temperature ?)
2, As my car is usally warm....around 70 F will I need a bottle heater or two or not at all ?
#2 - I would say yes. At 70*F you bottle will be pressurized at about 600-700 psi. The heat brings it up to 1100 psi which is what you need fot it to work correctly. That said, if you leave it in the hatch area on a sunny day, it'll easily get up to 2000 psi, which was a bit scary for me the first time!
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Personally I think you should have it, because on a cool morning or evening of you loose pressure, you loose HP!