Is The Prices of Gas Affecting Ur Driving?
04-20-2006, 03:09 PM
#62
Nordschleife Master
tv, are you baiting me?
Collusion?
Do you have any idea of how wide and varried the NG network in the US is? Have you seen the maps of the piplines that go all over the place? Or the distribution or storage facilities? Do you not know that 2 of the US's 4 LNG terminals are already on the East Coast? (Another is outside of New Orleans, and an export terminal is in Alaska.) There are numorous facilities planed for the West Coast. The question of if they get built is mainly up the the residents of the West Coast.
Collusion? Do you have any idea how compettetive the market is? Do you not realize that the number of refineries in the US has been falling over the last 30 years? Thats right, we have less refineries in the US than we did 30 years ago. That is because some of them went out of bussness. Immagion that! Our current refining capasity has been about the same for 30 years, because of technological improvements that allow existing refineries to opperate for longer peroids, and at higher rates.
This is simply the upside of the oil boom. Demand is up all over the world. Stockpiles are down. production, globaly, is not ramping up as fast as demand. And prices are skyrocketing as it doesn't take a big missmatch in demand and supply to cause a big change in price.
What is itersting is that it's not just oil. Pick any given commodity, and you can bet that it's up. Many are WAY up. Gold is up to 630, from 200 just a few years ago. Copper, iron ore, soybeans, coal, and silver are up. And those are just off the top of my head. Maybe it's collusion, or speculation for a few, but there is no way that it's all of them.
Collusion?
Do you have any idea of how wide and varried the NG network in the US is? Have you seen the maps of the piplines that go all over the place? Or the distribution or storage facilities? Do you not know that 2 of the US's 4 LNG terminals are already on the East Coast? (Another is outside of New Orleans, and an export terminal is in Alaska.) There are numorous facilities planed for the West Coast. The question of if they get built is mainly up the the residents of the West Coast.
Collusion? Do you have any idea how compettetive the market is? Do you not realize that the number of refineries in the US has been falling over the last 30 years? Thats right, we have less refineries in the US than we did 30 years ago. That is because some of them went out of bussness. Immagion that! Our current refining capasity has been about the same for 30 years, because of technological improvements that allow existing refineries to opperate for longer peroids, and at higher rates.
This is simply the upside of the oil boom. Demand is up all over the world. Stockpiles are down. production, globaly, is not ramping up as fast as demand. And prices are skyrocketing as it doesn't take a big missmatch in demand and supply to cause a big change in price.
What is itersting is that it's not just oil. Pick any given commodity, and you can bet that it's up. Many are WAY up. Gold is up to 630, from 200 just a few years ago. Copper, iron ore, soybeans, coal, and silver are up. And those are just off the top of my head. Maybe it's collusion, or speculation for a few, but there is no way that it's all of them.
04-20-2006, 03:13 PM
#63
Nordschleife Master
Here are a few LNG maps from the State of CA.
http://www.energy.ca.gov/lng/international.html
http://www.energy.ca.gov/lng/projects.html
http://www.energy.ca.gov/lng/international.html
http://www.energy.ca.gov/lng/projects.html
04-20-2006, 03:21 PM
#65
Instructor
I live about 4 miles from work by road, so the price of commuting has never been an issue, regardless of what I chose to drive on any particular day. The kids school is close, as are the stores we frequently trade with. So the price of gas has never been a huge issue, even considering my wife and I both regularly drive 3/4 ton Suburbans.
BUT...
This summer we'll be pulling the Airstream down to Destin and then Orlando for vacation. Even at today's current prices, fuel for that trip will cost us around $560. That's a lot of $$ for one trip...
Bring on the E85! (Hopefully without extreme taxation designed to prop up the oil companies...)
BUT...
This summer we'll be pulling the Airstream down to Destin and then Orlando for vacation. Even at today's current prices, fuel for that trip will cost us around $560. That's a lot of $$ for one trip...
Bring on the E85! (Hopefully without extreme taxation designed to prop up the oil companies...)
04-20-2006, 03:28 PM
#66
Drifting
No Virbus, I am not baiting you. My Collusion comment was about OIL not about gas. It has to do with the 5 Fatcats that sat up on capitol hill about 5 weeks ago before a senate committee. The big oil boys.
(GAS)
I do know for a fact that here in the northeast the price was at 14.00/unit and there were fears from industry experts of shortages and prices rose because of that damn colonial pipeline being down at its start point in the gulf. If we had enough LNG port capability we wouldn't have had that problem. I have seen the maps of the major pipelines. I know of these things as i watch the people everyday on CNBC, from pickens, to the head of the heavy crude refiner in TX, to every CEO and industry and market expert. Thats where i come up with my outlook.
(OIL)
The minister for opec said oil should be at 45/barrel back in the fall, they still say there is plenty of crude on the international market. The problem IS COLLUSION between the fatcats at the big oil companies and certain traders (hedge funds) screwing with the price on the NYMEX!!!!!!!!!!
Guys like T. Boone Pickins are rolling in dough at the expense of the average american. And these problems are for the most part caused/ allowed to exist because of LACK OF POLITICAL LEADERSHIP!
Its just that simple.
(GAS)
I do know for a fact that here in the northeast the price was at 14.00/unit and there were fears from industry experts of shortages and prices rose because of that damn colonial pipeline being down at its start point in the gulf. If we had enough LNG port capability we wouldn't have had that problem. I have seen the maps of the major pipelines. I know of these things as i watch the people everyday on CNBC, from pickens, to the head of the heavy crude refiner in TX, to every CEO and industry and market expert. Thats where i come up with my outlook.
(OIL)
The minister for opec said oil should be at 45/barrel back in the fall, they still say there is plenty of crude on the international market. The problem IS COLLUSION between the fatcats at the big oil companies and certain traders (hedge funds) screwing with the price on the NYMEX!!!!!!!!!!
Guys like T. Boone Pickins are rolling in dough at the expense of the average american. And these problems are for the most part caused/ allowed to exist because of LACK OF POLITICAL LEADERSHIP!
Its just that simple.
04-20-2006, 03:53 PM
#67
Nordschleife Master
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TV you see its only collusion if non-mericans did it see. We are to noble to screw over our own people. 
Guess who also believed the CA rolling blackouts were legit because of supply and demand and no market manipulation took place????
These oil companies have lobbied to restrict production of refinaries to squeeze the market tight. Then they blame China or whatever useful idiot they can muster up. They know a country full of American Idol watchers don't have the attention span to listen to the dirty details of price fixing and gouging.
Just stop buying Exxon. Atleast until that fat ***** ****** gets his neck under control. He's got the money to fix it, he better fix it before he trips on it.
Guess who also believed the CA rolling blackouts were legit because of supply and demand and no market manipulation took place????
These oil companies have lobbied to restrict production of refinaries to squeeze the market tight. Then they blame China or whatever useful idiot they can muster up. They know a country full of American Idol watchers don't have the attention span to listen to the dirty details of price fixing and gouging.
Just stop buying Exxon. Atleast until that fat ***** ****** gets his neck under control. He's got the money to fix it, he better fix it before he trips on it.
04-20-2006, 03:58 PM
#68
Nordschleife Master
Are you asking why there arn't more LNG facilities?
1. Because pipe lines are FAR cheaper to move gas from the gulf/mexico/South Texas than LNG ships.
2. Untill about 5 years ago, NG was about 1-2 dollar 1000 cbft. There is no way to make money with an LNG terminal at that low price. It wasn't untill natural gas started to ramp up in 2000 that LNG plants started to make sence. The ones that were built before that were built with US goverment assistance.
There is plenty of crude. HEAVY SOUR crude. IIRC, heavy sour crude has been tradeing at $40-55 per barral. If sweet crude was at it's normal relationship, it would be maybe 4 dollas more. Only recently did Arabian heavy cross 55 a barral. Not only that, but it hasn't followed Arabian Lights run up in price. Saudia Arabia is under pressure to increase crude exports. They try to, but they basicly have trouble selling the only crude they have left, Arabian Heavy. As OPEC says, there just isn't enough refining capasity in the world to hanndle heavy crude. That is where the 45 dollar a barral remark comes from.
This bussness with Iran is driveing up prices a bit. As is the lack of stockpiles of motor fuel around the world as the summer driveing season looms in North America. This is taken together with an already tight market, and supply disruptions in Nigeria that threaten to get worse, and you've got a recepie for high prices.
1. Because pipe lines are FAR cheaper to move gas from the gulf/mexico/South Texas than LNG ships.
2. Untill about 5 years ago, NG was about 1-2 dollar 1000 cbft. There is no way to make money with an LNG terminal at that low price. It wasn't untill natural gas started to ramp up in 2000 that LNG plants started to make sence. The ones that were built before that were built with US goverment assistance.
There is plenty of crude. HEAVY SOUR crude. IIRC, heavy sour crude has been tradeing at $40-55 per barral. If sweet crude was at it's normal relationship, it would be maybe 4 dollas more. Only recently did Arabian heavy cross 55 a barral. Not only that, but it hasn't followed Arabian Lights run up in price. Saudia Arabia is under pressure to increase crude exports. They try to, but they basicly have trouble selling the only crude they have left, Arabian Heavy. As OPEC says, there just isn't enough refining capasity in the world to hanndle heavy crude. That is where the 45 dollar a barral remark comes from.
This bussness with Iran is driveing up prices a bit. As is the lack of stockpiles of motor fuel around the world as the summer driveing season looms in North America. This is taken together with an already tight market, and supply disruptions in Nigeria that threaten to get worse, and you've got a recepie for high prices.
04-20-2006, 04:01 PM
#69
Drifting
Originally Posted by Red UFO
Guess who also believed the CA rolling blackouts were legit because of supply and demand and no market manipulation took place????
These oil companies have lobbied to restrict production of refinaries to squeeze the market tight. Then they blame China or whatever useful idiot they can muster up. They know a country full of American Idol watchers don't have the attention span to listen to the dirty details of price fixing and gouging.
Just stop buying Exxon. Atleast until that fat ***** ****** gets his neck under control. He's got the money to fix it, he better fix it before he trips on it.
These oil companies have lobbied to restrict production of refinaries to squeeze the market tight. Then they blame China or whatever useful idiot they can muster up. They know a country full of American Idol watchers don't have the attention span to listen to the dirty details of price fixing and gouging.
Just stop buying Exxon. Atleast until that fat ***** ****** gets his neck under control. He's got the money to fix it, he better fix it before he trips on it.
Yeah Enron another TX energy company.
And yes the average american is clueless as to what the ***** is going on with anything, but they'll call in their favorite on idol.
Bill O'reilly said he will not buy from exxon/mobil anymore because of that fat ****.
04-20-2006, 04:15 PM
#70
Nordschleife Master
In any case.
Your entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. We'll see who's right in another decade or so when the investigations finish, and the historians take over.
As an asside, what is intersting is the rolling blackouts happened in CA, and not in other states. Why was Enron and the like unable to game the other deregulated markets?
Your entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. We'll see who's right in another decade or so when the investigations finish, and the historians take over.
As an asside, what is intersting is the rolling blackouts happened in CA, and not in other states. Why was Enron and the like unable to game the other deregulated markets?
04-20-2006, 04:15 PM
#71
Nordschleife Master
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Originally Posted by ViribusUnits
Are you asking why there arn't more LNG facilities?
1. Because pipe lines are FAR cheaper to move gas from the gulf/mexico/South Texas than LNG ships.
2. Untill about 5 years ago, NG was about 1-2 dollar 1000 cbft. There is no way to make money with an LNG terminal at that low price. It wasn't untill natural gas started to ramp up in 2000 that LNG plants started to make sence. The ones that were built before that were built with US goverment assistance.
There is plenty of crude. HEAVY SOUR crude. IIRC, heavy sour crude has been tradeing at $40-55 per barral. If sweet crude was at it's normal relationship, it would be maybe 4 dollas more. Only recently did Arabian heavy cross 55 a barral. Not only that, but it hasn't followed Arabian Lights run up in price. Saudia Arabia is under pressure to increase crude exports. They try to, but they basicly have trouble selling the only crude they have left, Arabian Heavy. As OPEC says, there just isn't enough refining capasity in the world to hanndle heavy crude. That is where the 45 dollar a barral remark comes from.
This bussness with Iran is driveing up prices a bit. As is the lack of stockpiles of motor fuel around the world as the summer driveing season looms in North America. This is taken together with an already tight market, and supply disruptions in Nigeria that threaten to get worse, and you've got a recepie for high prices.
1. Because pipe lines are FAR cheaper to move gas from the gulf/mexico/South Texas than LNG ships.
2. Untill about 5 years ago, NG was about 1-2 dollar 1000 cbft. There is no way to make money with an LNG terminal at that low price. It wasn't untill natural gas started to ramp up in 2000 that LNG plants started to make sence. The ones that were built before that were built with US goverment assistance.
There is plenty of crude. HEAVY SOUR crude. IIRC, heavy sour crude has been tradeing at $40-55 per barral. If sweet crude was at it's normal relationship, it would be maybe 4 dollas more. Only recently did Arabian heavy cross 55 a barral. Not only that, but it hasn't followed Arabian Lights run up in price. Saudia Arabia is under pressure to increase crude exports. They try to, but they basicly have trouble selling the only crude they have left, Arabian Heavy. As OPEC says, there just isn't enough refining capasity in the world to hanndle heavy crude. That is where the 45 dollar a barral remark comes from.
This bussness with Iran is driveing up prices a bit. As is the lack of stockpiles of motor fuel around the world as the summer driveing season looms in North America. This is taken together with an already tight market, and supply disruptions in Nigeria that threaten to get worse, and you've got a recepie for high prices.
Now you can maybe get a job for as an oil company apologists, go on CNN and pitch shovel loads of BS like that on TV. Now we know atleast 33%ers of Merica are dumb enuff to believe (blame future markets, Iran, China giving up on bikes) anything but the H2 or Exxon making $110 million per day in profit.
Thats the bottom line. They make more money per quarter than any company in history. What about about that don't you understand?
When the other 77% fill up the tanks at $3 bucks a gallon. See fat neck smiling on TV with his 1/2 billion in FU money. They aren't buying your bull**** sorry.
You might as well say the high price of Windows O/S is due to downloaders, P2P, future markets, google stock, anything, anything but Bill Gates has a monopoly and screws everyone into the ground. Because if he lowered the prices they would take a big loss.
Anybody remember the big computer loss in the 80s? My dad took a hit in Activision stock and it hurtt him bad. God damn downloaders, downloading all those Activision cartidges and those Chinese bootlegging them. Iran was screwing us too!
04-20-2006, 04:20 PM
#72
Drifting
LAST POST VB,
You now make my point for me about lack of leadership and lack of refineries. I think the company is Valero that refines heavy crude. I have seen the CEO on CNBC many times and listened to him. They have always made money refining heavy crude, been in business decades. The problems we have with shortages and price spikes are the result of greed and stupidity and lack of leadership.
The northeasts' shortages of gas come from the colonial pipeline problems and the gulf. The same company that operates the LNG ports would be the same supplying the pipeline and they can cover their costs. ITS ALL REGULATED, GET IT, THE POWER COMPANYS AND GAS COMPANIES ARE REGULATED AND THEY SUPPLY ALL US HOMEOWNERS. I DON'T CHOOSE WHO TO BUY GAS FROM. THE REGULATORY BOARD ALLOWS THE SUPPLIERS TO MAKE A CERTAIN PROFIT. LNG PORT COSTS WOULD BE FACTORED IN, ALREADY ARE FOR THE EXISTING ONES RIGHT?
Guy on cnbc right now was talking about stopping oil being used for power generation. ENOUGH
You now make my point for me about lack of leadership and lack of refineries. I think the company is Valero that refines heavy crude. I have seen the CEO on CNBC many times and listened to him. They have always made money refining heavy crude, been in business decades. The problems we have with shortages and price spikes are the result of greed and stupidity and lack of leadership.
The northeasts' shortages of gas come from the colonial pipeline problems and the gulf. The same company that operates the LNG ports would be the same supplying the pipeline and they can cover their costs. ITS ALL REGULATED, GET IT, THE POWER COMPANYS AND GAS COMPANIES ARE REGULATED AND THEY SUPPLY ALL US HOMEOWNERS. I DON'T CHOOSE WHO TO BUY GAS FROM. THE REGULATORY BOARD ALLOWS THE SUPPLIERS TO MAKE A CERTAIN PROFIT. LNG PORT COSTS WOULD BE FACTORED IN, ALREADY ARE FOR THE EXISTING ONES RIGHT?
Guy on cnbc right now was talking about stopping oil being used for power generation. ENOUGH
04-20-2006, 04:35 PM
#74
Burning Brakes
tv,
Valero is a special case. They got into the market specifically to refine heavy crude. They started with long term supply contracts with, IIRC a Scandinavian country that looked at the heavy crude as a waste product - therefore favorable pricing. In addition, Valero specifically built their refineries to refine heavy crude. They can not refine regular crude.
Yes, Valero has a great strategy. No, you can not compare then to the majors.
Valero is a special case. They got into the market specifically to refine heavy crude. They started with long term supply contracts with, IIRC a Scandinavian country that looked at the heavy crude as a waste product - therefore favorable pricing. In addition, Valero specifically built their refineries to refine heavy crude. They can not refine regular crude.
Yes, Valero has a great strategy. No, you can not compare then to the majors.
