Window Express Close on GT? - Instructions below
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I wonder if there's a similar jumper on our 1990 Mercedes. Mercs have the key open/close windows and sunroof from 1990, signified by the chrome strip on the door handles (wooo).
I'll have to browse the Merc forums...
I'll have to browse the Merc forums...
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Well - since Andrew showed the way - I did mine tonight. It really is easy to do with the seat still in place as Andrew showed.
Mine works correctly, it does stop up correctly with the module out I can hear the relay click back off again as soon as it gets to the top.
The operation is different than you might expect which I think is why Andrew thought his was always on. Euro's often work differently wrt windows, even on earlier years...
On A ROW/Euro the window controller is enabled with the ignition and stays on until the doors are opened BUT it is also always active as long as the doors are open. If you are in the car turn ignition on - windows work (including express up) - ignition off - windows still work (but not express up) open door windows still work (but not express up), close door - (windows no longer work), open door (windows work but not express up).
I think having the windows always work with the door open makes a lot of sense - think about it...
Alan
PS - Funky! - I posted a reply to Sterling & it shows up before his post - upgrade gremlins....
Mine works correctly, it does stop up correctly with the module out I can hear the relay click back off again as soon as it gets to the top.
The operation is different than you might expect which I think is why Andrew thought his was always on. Euro's often work differently wrt windows, even on earlier years...
On A ROW/Euro the window controller is enabled with the ignition and stays on until the doors are opened BUT it is also always active as long as the doors are open. If you are in the car turn ignition on - windows work (including express up) - ignition off - windows still work (but not express up) open door windows still work (but not express up), close door - (windows no longer work), open door (windows work but not express up).
I think having the windows always work with the door open makes a lot of sense - think about it...
Alan
PS - Funky! - I posted a reply to Sterling & it shows up before his post - upgrade gremlins....
Last edited by Alan; Mar 22, 2006 at 10:44 PM.
Electron Wrangler
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Well since this post locks out all Pre-1990 cars from playing - there are options for those cars too. And potentially for the passenger side on later cars too...
See http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...dowexpress.htm
For one example (but $50 per side)
Alan
See http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...dowexpress.htm
For one example (but $50 per side)
Alan
Last edited by Alan; Mar 27, 2006 at 03:17 PM. Reason: fixing broken link
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BTW - I couldn't resist - I popped the lid on the controller (not so easy)
It's microprocessor controlled - an intel MCS48 8748 (by NEC) an EPROM based 8 bit microcontroller (embedded code). There are a bunch of discrete components 6 bare relays (5 spdt and 1 spst) and an op amp and power transistor. The relays appear to be wired in series with the last ones acting as selectors for the particular motor and presumably others doing the inversion for the reversing. However I'd assume the coding for the options is in firmware asociated with the selected motor to drive. Probably not much that could be done easily to modify it. Looking at the complexity I didn't much like the idea of tracing the circuit - since it likely wouldn't make much sense without understanding the processor code anyway.
While dissassembling the code might be possible and I do have access to the required (but obsolete) gear - I don't have anything like that much time on my hands... Paragon's $50 seems like a very reasonable price suddenly...
Alan
It's microprocessor controlled - an intel MCS48 8748 (by NEC) an EPROM based 8 bit microcontroller (embedded code). There are a bunch of discrete components 6 bare relays (5 spdt and 1 spst) and an op amp and power transistor. The relays appear to be wired in series with the last ones acting as selectors for the particular motor and presumably others doing the inversion for the reversing. However I'd assume the coding for the options is in firmware asociated with the selected motor to drive. Probably not much that could be done easily to modify it. Looking at the complexity I didn't much like the idea of tracing the circuit - since it likely wouldn't make much sense without understanding the processor code anyway.
While dissassembling the code might be possible and I do have access to the required (but obsolete) gear - I don't have anything like that much time on my hands... Paragon's $50 seems like a very reasonable price suddenly...
Alan
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Supercharged
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Final update:
I was mistaken when I said that the express up does not shut off. It does. So if you have express down this simple mod will give you express up on the driver's window. Life is good!
I was mistaken when I said that the express up does not shut off. It does. So if you have express down this simple mod will give you express up on the driver's window. Life is good!
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From: Guelph, Ontario, Canada
I have a microcontroller based window control unit that is running in my 83 right now. Gives me express down / open as well as eliminates the need for the time delay relay for the rear wiper.I have included a rear delay wipe so that our friends in the pacnw can be happy (spent most of my life in Vncouver). It is an inline solution that just plugs into the connector that are there. It theoretically would be able to use the switches that do not currently operate windows as they are only signal level currents required. After seeing Andrews close with the key trick I have added that to the drawings but just have to do up some prototype boards and test. I wonder how many people are interested in something like this?
Rod
Rod
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Rod,
I assume that owners of cars earlier than '90 would be the most interested - since there were far fewer window features then.
I assume your controller allows concurrent window operation - the newer Porsche one does not (though it has a button press memory - for open anyway).
I have also implemented a rear wiper intermittemt (and it does a few other things!). However I use an original (78/79) pod mounted switch for this since I really don't think the rear wiper should be next to the window switches.
I plan to add back a window type switch where the rear wiper switch was with the function - all open express (L/R & sunroof) & All closed express. I plan to use the existing controller - but doing all these concurrently would actually be better than sequential. In the "land of the scorched earth" I commonly want to open all windows - before I even get in the car - then close them all as soon as the AC is cool enough to be winning over the residual stored heat. I plan to have this work with my keyless entry to enable
this. I have a rough design for it already but too many other things going on..It should be possible to piggyback this on the later controller - you may want to consider it for yours (you'd need an extra switch somewhere...)
Alan
I assume that owners of cars earlier than '90 would be the most interested - since there were far fewer window features then.
I assume your controller allows concurrent window operation - the newer Porsche one does not (though it has a button press memory - for open anyway).
I have also implemented a rear wiper intermittemt (and it does a few other things!). However I use an original (78/79) pod mounted switch for this since I really don't think the rear wiper should be next to the window switches.
I plan to add back a window type switch where the rear wiper switch was with the function - all open express (L/R & sunroof) & All closed express. I plan to use the existing controller - but doing all these concurrently would actually be better than sequential. In the "land of the scorched earth" I commonly want to open all windows - before I even get in the car - then close them all as soon as the AC is cool enough to be winning over the residual stored heat. I plan to have this work with my keyless entry to enable
this. I have a rough design for it already but too many other things going on..It should be possible to piggyback this on the later controller - you may want to consider it for yours (you'd need an extra switch somewhere...)
Alan
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From: Guelph, Ontario, Canada
That feature would also be a good idea, and easy to implement. I have current sensing and as such can have express up / close as well. The unit fits nicely just back of the ash tray in the center console, although you could really mount it anywhere. I could do an all open express by tapping twice quickly on the drivers down or something like it.
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RIP
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69gaugeman,Rod its good to see your still with us! See you at one of the meetings we'er all driving now pm me with your e-mail adress to me .
--------------------------
dennis
82 weissach # 142
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dennis
82 weissach # 142
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Supercharged
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I've had a couple of questions on how my windows operate since doing this super easy mod.
1. Windows and sunroof are operable all the time regardless of key or door open/closed.
2. Express down is still a feature ('91GT has this standard - this is not a new function).
3. Express up is only on driver window and works just like the express down. This feature is only enabled when the key is in the ignition. One word of caution: unlike today's modern express up windows, it appears that the 928 version does not have a crush sensor. What that means is that if your 2-year old decides to get their head stuck in the window when you leave the car running and run in the house to get your sunglasses - it will choke them unless you reverse the direction of the window yourself. Be careful!
Hope this covers everything.
1. Windows and sunroof are operable all the time regardless of key or door open/closed.
2. Express down is still a feature ('91GT has this standard - this is not a new function).
3. Express up is only on driver window and works just like the express down. This feature is only enabled when the key is in the ignition. One word of caution: unlike today's modern express up windows, it appears that the 928 version does not have a crush sensor. What that means is that if your 2-year old decides to get their head stuck in the window when you leave the car running and run in the house to get your sunglasses - it will choke them unless you reverse the direction of the window yourself. Be careful!
Hope this covers everything.
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Andrew - Hummm - something's up..
1. Should not be true (by design) if yours works this way its broken! (Test - get in car - ignition on, ignition off, door open, door closed - does it still work now?)
2. Yep you always had that!
3. Yep mostly - but the way it knows to stop IS the "crush sensor" - its very tough though - it would hurt! - but it would stop (does not reverse though..)
If yours doesn't work (maybe?) the windows would not stop driving until the timeout (about 10 seconds) - there is a test you can do for this...
If the relays do click off at the top - that how they stopped - there is no other mechanism - no limit switch feedback...
Alan
1. Should not be true (by design) if yours works this way its broken! (Test - get in car - ignition on, ignition off, door open, door closed - does it still work now?)
2. Yep you always had that!
3. Yep mostly - but the way it knows to stop IS the "crush sensor" - its very tough though - it would hurt! - but it would stop (does not reverse though..)
If yours doesn't work (maybe?) the windows would not stop driving until the timeout (about 10 seconds) - there is a test you can do for this...
If the relays do click off at the top - that how they stopped - there is no other mechanism - no limit switch feedback...
Alan
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Supercharged
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Alan-
You are such a perfectionist!
The windows work for about 10-20 seconds after you close the door (when the interior lights turn off). But if you re-open the door, the windows are, again, operable.
The express up will shut-off if it encounters an obstruction, but will not reverse - it just turns off. So your kid could still die.
Hopefully that clears things up.
You are such a perfectionist!
The windows work for about 10-20 seconds after you close the door (when the interior lights turn off). But if you re-open the door, the windows are, again, operable.
The express up will shut-off if it encounters an obstruction, but will not reverse - it just turns off. So your kid could still die.
Hopefully that clears things up.
