Mongo

Okay, it may seem a little out of sorts to want a 16-valve after owning a 32-valve 928 S4. I really like my S4, and it's a wonderful daily driver. However, I feel that daily duty may be a little too much for my baby Paintwork is clean, with the exception of a clear coat bubbling on the roof due to overbuffing (no I don't use rotary buffers, just some nut job that the original owner took the car to). My dad and I restored this car mechanically back from 2001 to today.

Anyways, I have chosen my next daily driver as a 16-valve 928S, 1983-1984. However, I won't miss the opportunity to pick up a super clean 85-86.5 car if the price is less than an S4. I also am a sucker for old body styling since our first 928 was a 1985, brand new off the showroom floor. I have access to workshop manuals and will eventually be picking up a timing belt tension tool (P9201) to also service my 944 and S4.

My questions today:

-What are some of your experiences with the 16-valve 928s?

-I'm interested of course in an exhaust upgrade on a 16-valve car. The catalytic convertor is a Y-type design. Can an X-pipe and cats be installed, then a Y-collector into 3" piping be a power loss?

-Are wheel offsets the same as a 1987+ 928?

I'll think of more questions when I'm less sleepy. Night everyone

tlee

Hi Stig,

My 83 has lots of spunk. I upgraded the suspension with Bilstein/Eibach and 17inch cup wheels and Conti SportContact2's.
Of course remember to replace the front aluminum ball joints asap.
With trans properly serviced and adjusted and all fresh fluids its been super reliable and lots of fun.

My previous hotrod was a euro M635csi with heavy mods. Had full suspension, coated headers, custom intake and internal mods for rougly 325-350 hp.
It was very fast and I'd say I'm having nearly as much fun with a much lower monthly cost and as you know; being non-interference is nice when you redline etc.

I say go for it!
Tlee

SharkSkin

Andy, mine has been rock solid with no engine work for nearly two years as a daily driver. Still fires right up and runs strong, idles smooth. Seems the more I drive it, the better it runs. I tend to think CIS is a bit more bulletproof than EFI(fewer, simpler parts), which may be a factor -- but YMMV. The only real PITA with daily driving an older car is you may have to upgrade the cooling if you see much traffic, and even with all electrical stuff in perfect condition it won't idle in traffic indefinitely if you have headlights, foglights, defroster, wipers, etc on. Once you're rolling there is no issue but in bumper-to-bumper, nighttime, bad weather you will have to manage power consumption. Exhaust upgrades are always possible, but I think you will find fewer bolt-in solutions for the early cars. Most likely you'll have to go custom. IIRC '85-85 should have steel ball joint carriers, but check anyway. Wheels should be compatible, but beware if one car has spacers. I haven't paid any attention to what cars do/don't have them(though I'm pretty sure GTS's do).

Daniel Dudley

I think 80 - 84 with Ljetronic are wonderful cars and probably get better gas mileage than the CIS.

Joe F

"Better gas mileage and CIS" cannot be used in the same sentence except to describe their mutual exclusivity. My '83S euro gets terrible mileage.

tammons

Good

The 16v cars are a lot more simple than the 32v cars.

My first 84s car was in 89 with 50k. Drove it 3 years and it did not miss a beat. Only the typ misc maintenance.

A few others between........

My latest car is a clean well maintained 83s and its a keeper too. 5G and 150k perfect paint and a nice interior. So far I have changed the oil, brakes, and replaced the FP regulators and that is it.

IMO I think the 83s and 84s cars are the most reliable except for the fuses. Its best to remove and clean the early fuses and contacts about every 6mo or so. The blade fuse cars are better in that department, but I have heard of elec nightmares with those cars too.

The #1 upgrade IMO for a 83s or 84s is S4 brakes.

As far as I know the offsets are the same. I have had cup and c2 type wheels on 2 different cars.

Mongo

can you use the same early hub to adapt S4 calipers and rotors? Or would I have to buy spindles?

hacker-pschorr

One of the big 3 sells a kit to upgrade the 78-82 brakes to S4 calipers (not sure what rotor they use). The 83-84 have "S" brakes, larger than the early ones, still a single piston. I upgraded the brakes on my 81 to 84 US spec brakes, cheap upgrade made a huge difference on the track.

My 79 has modified stock spindles to hold the S4 calipers.

Get one - wait for a 5-speed (yea yea, crappy syncros, just make sure someone who knows what they are doing adjusts the clutch) pull the rear-most muffler off and have fun. Then bolt on a supercharger.

SharkSkin

Gas mileage in town with CIS ain't great... but how does 18.9MPG over 400 miles, average speed 87 MPH, including one gas & smoke stop and two other smoke stops(I don't smoke in the car) sound?

hacker-pschorr

Why all the talk about gas mileage? Your right foot will make the biggest difference. Around town driving & highway my 79 gets better mileage than my 81. Might have something to do with my 79 having headers and an almost zero restriction exhaust. Not to mention if I stand in it in town, every cop within a 10 block radius will know where I am.

m21sniper

I cant imagine needing more braking than my 83S has.

The brakes are awe inspiring.

hacker-pschorr

Then you are not driving fast enough

I cannot say I notice a big difference between the S brakes on my 81 and the S4 brakes on the 79. On the track the biggest difference is fade, the S4 brakes have never shown any sign of fade after many laps. The S brakes would start to get a bit soft towards the end of a 30 minute run.

I ran pagid orange pads in the 81, not sure what pads are in the 79. I ran what the car came with for the two events I was in last year. This year I'll be running pagid orange pads in the 79.

dfroelicher

I have a 83S AT and have heard that the brakes are the one thing that people want to upgrade first or in some cases at all. I love my 928 and think that not bending any valves when the TB breaks is a great feature and reason to buy over the 32v. For a daily driver I think it is quick, reliable and fun to drive.

Also ditto on the power managment at stop lights and bumper to bumper at night. The one I would change about the older cars if I could, although I have been toying with the idea of seeing if a blade type panel would fit into the older model cars.

All in all, a great little car for the money and a real joy to drive, if you already have a 32v then go with a 16v for work and short trips. Just don't forget to drive the 32v or the 16v, they will get mad at you and refuse to run as nicely.

Bill51sdr

Andy, knowing you, you will miss the 80-100 extra horsepower the S4 has over the L-jets, believe me. You'd be better off looking at the 85-86's if you are serious about this.

m21sniper

Hmmm, my '83 sure isn't missing 80hp vs an S4. In fact i suspect i could put a pretty good spanking on a stock S4 in a simple 0-100 run.