new spark plug wires for the Holbert car. BIG DISAPOINTMENT!
01-09-2006, 01:39 PM
#16
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Mark
If your only concern is the length then you should be able to unscrew the plug end from the wire and cut the wires down so that the fit is better. I think the rotor cap ends are molded onto the wire (making it tough to use generic wire), but I know for sure that the plug ends unscrew. The economy plug wire sets from 928intl have always seem like a good deal to me as the plug ends last a long time, although one time I went that way and the problem did turn out to be corrosion where the wire connected to the plug end. The cost of the economy set, a single replacement plug end, and having my mechanic put it on his scope to figure out which plug end was the problem was still less than the cost of the full wire set. BTW high voltage is like high frequency in that there is a certain amount of voodoo involved and it is very common to have defects in wires and componets that you cannot see with your eye or measure with a ohm meter. Really the only way to evaluate the system are 1) to look for the light show, and 2) put it on a scope.
If your only concern is the length then you should be able to unscrew the plug end from the wire and cut the wires down so that the fit is better. I think the rotor cap ends are molded onto the wire (making it tough to use generic wire), but I know for sure that the plug ends unscrew. The economy plug wire sets from 928intl have always seem like a good deal to me as the plug ends last a long time, although one time I went that way and the problem did turn out to be corrosion where the wire connected to the plug end. The cost of the economy set, a single replacement plug end, and having my mechanic put it on his scope to figure out which plug end was the problem was still less than the cost of the full wire set. BTW high voltage is like high frequency in that there is a certain amount of voodoo involved and it is very common to have defects in wires and componets that you cannot see with your eye or measure with a ohm meter. Really the only way to evaluate the system are 1) to look for the light show, and 2) put it on a scope.
01-09-2006, 02:33 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by jeff jackson
you can...its just that at $89 a set...for the OEM Beru wires already cut to proper size and ready for installation of the screw on terminals and spark plug connectors...the deal Mark Robinson is offering, is almost a "no-brainer". Not sure...but I think he is offering these OEM replacements in Red-Blue-or the OEM Black as well. It has already been established that these OEM wire sets are perfectly adequate for GT class racing as well as street use. So I don't see the fuss over the available "aftermarket" stuff...when the OEM pieces work fine, and can be had at less than 1/2 the price. 
Mark Robinson??
01-09-2006, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jeff jackson
you can...its just that at $89 a set...for the OEM Beru wires already cut to proper size and ready for installation of the screw on terminals and spark plug connectors...the deal Mark Robinson is offering, is almost a "no-brainer". Not sure...but I think he is offering these OEM replacements in Red-Blue-or the OEM Black as well. It has already been established that these OEM wire sets are perfectly adequate for GT class racing as well as street use. So I don't see the fuss over the available "aftermarket" stuff...when the OEM pieces work fine, and can be had at less than 1/2 the price.
I don't see how $89 without ends is less than half of ~$140 with ends. Either way, I don't think somebody could go wrong with Beru or Magnecor wires.
01-09-2006, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mark kibort
actually, measured the resistance of the old and new wires in the 30 ohm range (connection to connection) even the coil wires were something in the 10-20ohm range. both the new set and the 20 year old set were about the same resistnace. im wondering, where is the resistance, in the head or somehow in the wires. anyway, where does the multiple "k" ohm resistance come in and is it as i suspect, a resistance of the insulation.
01-09-2006, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingDog
Mark Robinson's Beru wires are $79 or 89, resuse the factory connectors (maybe Jeff's ebay link, I didn't look).
Magnecors were in the $140 range, but they recently had a price increase. They're complete and highly temp resistant silicone covered for racing environment. I never checked their price but Motorsport in Utah has them in stock.
Beru (stock) wires with the connectors are somewhere around $200 IIRC.
Nology wires are sold by 928 Specialists, but they're well over $200.
For the resistance... keep in mind that there is a 3kohm resistor in the stock plug connectors.
Magnecors were in the $140 range, but they recently had a price increase. They're complete and highly temp resistant silicone covered for racing environment. I never checked their price but Motorsport in Utah has them in stock.
Beru (stock) wires with the connectors are somewhere around $200 IIRC.
Nology wires are sold by 928 Specialists, but they're well over $200.
For the resistance... keep in mind that there is a 3kohm resistor in the stock plug connectors.
so if any significant advantage was to be had by an aftermarket wire upgrade...I would suspect they would all be using them...
01-09-2006, 04:56 PM
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Several here have bought Magnecors for $140-ish. I got a quote last year for $141.76 plus drop shipping from Magnecor for 8.5mm S2 wires. I just checked and $146.22 is the current 8mm price for 32V. IIRC, 8mm will fit in the stock 7mm wire holders. The prices I got were from a non-Rennlist sponsor. I don't know what Motorsport's prices are.
01-09-2006, 05:05 PM
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WOW...thanks. I am referring to the wires I have seen on Ebay. But at $140 or so...the Megnecors are definitely a good option for anyone seeking an aftermarket wire...just dont know how much of an actual "upgrade" they are...over a new OEM replacement set. Not sure any "noticeable" gains will be evident for the extra money. (Perhaps cosmetic maybe)... and lots of folks want to improve the looks of the engine bay, (myself included). 
01-09-2006, 05:15 PM
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if you decide to reuse your plug ends, just make sure you ohm them to make sure they are good. i had around 3/8 that had no continuity when i ohmed them when i first got my car.
01-09-2006, 05:36 PM
#25
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My 16V plug connectors have the "3k" moulded on them IIRC. I bought a wire set off Berlyn in UK for <GBP100 a couple of years ago. The first test I do on suspect wires (apart from looking for a light show at night) is put a meter across the lead, and flex it vigorously back and forth and see if the reading changes - if it does there are internal breaks , and it needs tossing.
jp 83 Euro S AT 50k
jp 83 Euro S AT 50k
01-09-2006, 06:31 PM
#26
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so where do you measure 3000ohms? if Im measuring the wire at the plug socket to the cap connection, is the resistance in the cap?? sorry, im new to this ignition voodo science.
Im sure these wires will work out ok, but no it depends on how they wear (last) , but anything is better than my firework (lightshow) stock 20 year old wires, but they did have the screw in plug connections. the new wires are molded all the way around, so no screw in capabilities.
again, i measured the resistance of the old wires and coil wires vs the new stuff and they all look the same. im just curious where the high ohm numbers come from and are talking about.
Mk
Im sure these wires will work out ok, but no it depends on how they wear (last) , but anything is better than my firework (lightshow) stock 20 year old wires, but they did have the screw in plug connections. the new wires are molded all the way around, so no screw in capabilities.
again, i measured the resistance of the old wires and coil wires vs the new stuff and they all look the same. im just curious where the high ohm numbers come from and are talking about.
Mk
Originally Posted by FlyingDog
See my previous post about the resistance. As Brian said, the insulation's resistance is so high that it's not measurable by regualr equipment. I think standard "low resistance preformance" wires like Accel and Ford Motorsport are around 1k/ft. IIRC, the Accel kit has non-resistor ends. As you've measured, the stock wires are about 10ohm/ft. The difference between #5 and #4 on a 16V would be ~3010 vs ~3030ohms with stock wires. It would be ~500 vs ~3000ohms for generic "performance" wires directed toward the American street car market.
01-09-2006, 06:49 PM
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The resistor is in the plug end. You should measure the resistance between where the wire goes into the plug end (doesn't sound possible on the new wires) and where the plug goes into the plug end. I haven't tried measuring the resistance on my wires or ends. I have read that the resistance measured with a regular multimeter on some wires isn't accurate. Apparently the resistance changes because of some electrical principal that I don't understand. I think it's some sort of field effect.
People seem to use wires that aren't correct regularly and not many have problems. Like Magnecor expresses repeatedly in their literature; plug wires cannot give you horsepower, they can simply allow you to use all the potential horsepower you have. Once you know the correct type of wires, the only upgrade is for durability, reliability, fit, or looks. Using the wrong type of plug wires can cost you horsepower, so it's best to use the right ones.
People seem to use wires that aren't correct regularly and not many have problems. Like Magnecor expresses repeatedly in their literature; plug wires cannot give you horsepower, they can simply allow you to use all the potential horsepower you have. Once you know the correct type of wires, the only upgrade is for durability, reliability, fit, or looks. Using the wrong type of plug wires can cost you horsepower, so it's best to use the right ones.
01-09-2006, 07:05 PM
#28
Drifting
Originally Posted by BRETT AINLEY
HI Mark,
I recently replaced my wires in the UK with NOLOGY...they were like yours
but worse...all wrong lengths....were NOT coloured for more than about 60% of the wires (I bought them for the colour lol Both coil wires were TOTALLY black and SAME length lol...
They cost me £175 plus vat (tax) thats around $350 I think....
Do NOT buy Nology WIRES IS MY RECOMMENDATION.....
I recently replaced my wires in the UK with NOLOGY...they were like yours
but worse...all wrong lengths....were NOT coloured for more than about 60% of the wires (I bought them for the colour lol Both coil wires were TOTALLY black and SAME length lol...They cost me £175 plus vat (tax) thats around $350 I think....
Do NOT buy Nology WIRES IS MY RECOMMENDATION.....
01-10-2006, 11:09 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by ROG100
Mark,
Get a set from Mark Robinson.
Right size, right wire, right quality & right price.
Roger
Get a set from Mark Robinson.
Right size, right wire, right quality & right price.
Roger
