Lizard928

Stan the only person I know that apparently suffered some premature wear (not a total failure) was Mark Anderson.

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

I don't know that there is anyone that has installed a drysump without the specially drilled crank, just interested to hear who that might be.

I did a quick search, as I recalled there was a page on how Mark blew up several motors during development of his car, but thought he had the drilled crank before the drysump, if so, would not have ever likely run without a drilled crank after the drysump.

mark kibort

The specs are the 6.4 liter with the 85 cams with equal length headers and a 3.5" exhaust. no other mods. compression is rumored to be around 11:1

I dont have the dyno run on this computer, but I posted it on the stroker engine thread. Ill see if i can drum it up.

Thanks

mk

Kevin Johnson

420 rwhp NA with an unstroked S4, shift points late in season 7000+. Car out of action due to broken timing belt.
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Edit: With an undrilled crank.
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That was just two years ago.

In Porsche race engines Ti rods are replaced at 40 hours because of the stress of RACING. P O R S C H E beats up on its race engines.

I know you are racing, Mark, but the car and engine is capable of more and this is not conjecture but rather history. Don't blame me.

Lizard928

it is pretty silly how little HP/Litre that kiborts machine is putting out.

Kevin Johnson

I was trying to push Ford to do just a bit more development on the Coyote 5.0 to kick Toyota's butt (UR BMEP is a tad higher). Coyote (NA) puts out ~400hp and ~400ftlb of torque.

I estimate they are still losing about 5% to windage/pumping because of the asymmetric head drain pattern and resulting pumping patterns. Toyota (brilliantly) truncated the pattern and used a block design closer to that of the GT dry sump. Little things can mean a lot.

Kevin Johnson

That's fantastic -- the OEMs scrutinize designs too. It is the best way. It is interesting reading some of the declassified war reports when captured equipment was stripped down. Also, you can see into the mind of the designer or see a cacophony of bits from bins cobbled together.


These are good basic principles but there can be conflict between them if taken as absolutes. Simply put, you cannot be a slave to rules but must rather understand why there might be an exception that still obeys the spirit.

In the philosophy of mathematics and logic there are prime concepts that are appealed to on an intuitive level, i.e. group assention. Negation subsumes itself but is a prime concept. Later we learn that to assume both the postive assertion and negation leads to anything whatsoever. Life is imperfect or at least human understanding of it is.

Now, concrete example for engines. Reducing a passage size will tend to bring dissolved gases out of solution because of the pressure drop. This reduction is often a requirement in an engine. I believe Porsche also uses this concept to help deaerate oil in its modern engines. I don't have time at the moment to track down the (presumed) patent. Ideally the oil would not have air in it in the first place. But it does. First and third precepts doing the Tango.

No, it is not but to follow the Mazda you would need a fresh undrilled core.

Multiple drillings create areas of turbulence in the galleys. This causes localized pressure drops where air can coalesce. One way to help reduce this is to create indexed plugs that will fill and close off blind channels and smooth passages. This would be very expensive because of the labor involved.

Ford sponsored windage research at MIT on the Porsche designed 2.5 V6 back in 2003-2004. At the same time, engineers at Ford were studying the transport of air in the oil (for the same engine, I believe). Both published papers for the same SAE conference. Interesting to read both and correlate.

mark kibort

In history , when has the car done more? We all know about Dennis' motor.

mark kibort

Pretty common for a stroker with no mods to the top end. I think Anderson or Fans engine, along with Devek, only made 370ish as well with no other mods.

Right now, as someone that knows the performance of this chassis pretty well, a stock chassis is not well mated to much more hp and be safe. With some minor mods to suspension, it could be.

It is interesting that the extra displacement only gave a little over 50hp. just the displacement gain alone should have provided 80 more hp based on percentage increases.

mark kibort

When was this. How come we never heard of this?
5 liter making 420rwhp? what was done to it.
Dennis' motor made 375rwhp with the mods talked about here, but I guess with a custom intake, and other big changes anything is possible. thats big HP out of a 5 liter. And i totally agree, it would have to be shifted at some high rpms to make that kind of power with optimized flow.

Now, getting back to your original statement. this would not be a porsche designed engine either. Those engine dont have oiling issues and are shifted up to 9000rpm without issues. (i.e. GT3cup)

Mark Anderson

Stan I had a dry sump before I addressed the crank drilling and I blew up several engines. I took my stock crank to an expert and he said it was drilled like a tractor. It was never meant to turn high RPM.

ew928

Them Weissach engineers running back to their roots when they drew up the V8 crank.



signed
'king of short shift'

ptuomov

MK -- Take a look at the recent post in the holbert stroker thread. I made a bunch of assumptions there, please correct the erroneous ones. TV

Kevin Johnson

I don't think this debate will ever end because people forget what disagrees with their premises.

Jean-Paul van Kol.

Rob said the engine could have been built for 500hp but it would not last. Rob is a pretty sharp guy.

Kevin Johnson

I saw one of those parked at Dave White's a few years back. I was impressed with the crank and girdle in the M96 -- reminded me of the Maybach engine in the Tiger. Certain design elements of it, anyway.