DR

Heinrich,

>I'm saying, let's be careful the design is good.
>Solving the windage problem may cause other issues.

Thanks, I appreciate your info and caution. I guess I will wait for more feedback from early adopters before I consider getting one.

Carl Fausett

I opted out of the teflon-edged version - they suggest that with the teflon edges you can get a zero clearance fit... that was too spooky for me. I prefer a little more old-school - about 1.5 mm in all directions of all moving parts... in fact, I opened it up a tad in some spots, they had it too close IMHO.

As to the "rough cuts" - it is obviously hand-made and that doesn't bother me at all. The cuts were good, almost all edges smooth. The ones that DR circled in the super-closeup are the chisled edges that were added by a grinder. I took a file to everything to round it off and make sure there were no loose shavings available.

I expect to get better cooling as a result of this (and less oil vapor in the crankcase vent). Not sure why you might think it'll run hotter, Heinrich. Usually, if you can get the oil down into the sump faster it gets to the oil cooler sooner and lower engine temps are the result.

Can you tell us the thoughts or experience behind your opinion?

As for 928 Motorsports, we do not sell this product. I'm just reporting on the one I bought and just installed. I have to install it and run it personally before I can recommend it to others.... that may come later (like the end of the next race season). We'll see how it does...

heinrich

Carl I hope to see good results

Carl Fausett

Heinrich - what brings you to think the temp will go up?

heinrich

Didn't say that Carl. I said (out of concern for you) that IF you experience anything abnormal, CONSIDER that it MAY be the baffle. If the bafflle starves your engine of oil as I have seen first-hand, then you'll see zero pressure and higher engine temps.

toofast928

Carl,
The 4.5L is oil splash lubricated to the wrist pins, do you think the scraper would increase wear on the pins? That is the amount of oil slung would be cut down by some percentage.

Carl Fausett

I do not think so ( but I also do not KNOW)

almost all of the crank scraper is below the bottom-most travel of the crank journal as it rotates. If you look, you will see that the bottom of the rods just peak thru the crank scraper.

this means that the crank scraper - although it looks formiddable (we are looking at it from the bottom - the sump-side) yet the cylinder walls and wrist pins are still going to get all splashed as they always did from connecting rod journal throwoff - just like before. This has done nothing that I can see to prevent the wrist pins or cylinder walls from getting oil in the same way they did before.

it does, however, attempt to route the oil as it drains back down away from the moving parts and I like that.

somebody asked what it cost. They start at $70 and you can add more and more. I paid $319 for full-boat crank scraper and windage mods. I did stop short of the teflon zero-clearance option.
here is a link: http://www.crank-scrapers.com/prod04.htm

I will say - after paying $319 and receiving it and installing it... I found myself wondering why it did not cost more. As a fabricator myself, when I look at the time it must take for them to produce one of these kits - WOW.

I like DR's idea of a laser-cut or water-cut bulk run... but who's going to pay the setup charges and order enough to make the per-piece price come down? I'd rather just support the current inventor/manufacturer - in my opinion their product is good and their price very reasonable.

of course, if it causes any problems with this expensive motor I'm building... I'll change my tune right quick.

Bill Ball

Thanks for the report, Carl. Keep it coming. I appreicate all the work these guys put into the basic design, with the trap door and all, even if it looks a little unpolished. My concern is that they won't sell enough to support continued production, and I thought the price was cheap considering the design time that must have been involved. I guess I'm close to buying one as I think it will help control oil loss as well as provide a little more power at high speed in open road racing.

How do you think installing it with the engine in the car would go? Looks doable to me.

Benton

I can't wait to hear a report on this. Hopefully they will still be available once some reports are available, as I might purchase one in a few months.

Mark

I dropped a PM to Kevin at Crank-scrapers and asked him to chime in. He seemed very consciencious and knowledgeable when I dealt with him on my motor he used for the design.

hinchcliffe

If someone can send me dimensional drawings in a readable format (Acad, .sat, .stp...) we have a water jet machine here, as well as a wire edm. On a Saturday I can possibly have the operator set-up and cut them. Should not take very long to do it.

DR

Hi Carl,
Thank for the feedback, we are both thinking along the same lines.

>I like DR's idea of a laser-cut or water-cut bulk run... but who's going to pay the setup charges and >order enough to make the per-piece price come down?

Just as a guess it looks like theirs is cut with a computer controlled plasma cutter, if that is the case the Plasma and Waterjet files would be interchangeable and there would be no setup charges between the two.

For example, when I send CAD files of my parts for the SC kits to the waterjetter there is no setup fees as all they have to do is load the file and program the entry/exit points. After that they keep them on file and all I have to do is call or send an e-mail with the file # and quantity desired. Some of the more complex parts only cost about $5 each to cut (not including material cost) in quantities as small as 10-20.

>I'd rather just support the current inventor/manufacturer -

I agree completely, but by having this conversation we might can influence the product that is aimed directly at us and our wallets.

>in my opinion their product is good and their price very reasonable.

I agree also, but as with anything there is always a little room for improvement and sometimes those little improvements don't cost much, and sometimes could even cost less.

Please keep us informed with how this works out because as I have said before I think it is a great idea and is needed for our 928s.

DR

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for taking the time to post here concerning the concerns that were brought up by me.

As I hope you picked up thru all of my postings I was and still am impressed with your design and the product. I know very well what it is like to get small production parts made for a 928 and I can tell your effort was not mainly motivated by the almighty dollar. I want to personally thank you for taking the time and effort to make such a limited production part for our 928s, it is appreciated. . There was just some concerns I honestly didn't understand. Some of those have been addressed by Carl describing his grinding etc, and you have certainly taken a lot of time to address the others.

I will say from the description of the waterjet company you approached that I believe you should discuss this with some other waterjet facilities when you have the time. I too have run into some facilities that seemed to mirror exactly what your experience was.

I have no interest in the following recommendation, other than a satisfied customer, but when you are ready to pursue waterjetting in the future give the guys at Perfect Edge in Atlanta a call (770) 458-7005 and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Keep up the good work and don't take my comments as negative, just honest feedback and questions.

Thanks again,

BC

Thanks Kevin. lPlease keep up the great work.

Fastest928

I solved an oiling issue in a 928 that had a windage tray of a different design....took out the tray, and all worked well.

Supporting the crank on a stand and losening and tightening the main girdle nuts is not a good idea, neither is "running" in a scraper with teflon and having peices of teflon inside the engine.

What is the testing method to determine the effect of the installed device? What is the goal?

Good luck, looking forward to the results.