Imo000

How fast did he go?

Jim_H

180 plus.

My GT with TS, 462 RWHP red lined around 163mph but it got there pretty fast. Anyone wanting to break 200 doesn't want the GT gearing.

I will add that the pucker factor is much higher when you redline in 5th than in 1st

Herr-Kuhn

In my opinion, the twin screw is a far superior machine, specifically for a street car. If you have the Automatic then that chioce is very easy.

My personal preference will always be the turbo. It combines the best of the CS and TS setups, namely boost when you want it with the lowest parasitic drag possible. Spare me the responses beacuse forced induced experts all agree with the above statement. So does Porsche.

I would like to see a head to head driving comparision between the TS and Vortech setups on the same boost level on the same engine. My gut tells me the Vortech would hold up to the TS in the low gears because 1st and 2nd go by quickly for the Vortech based on the gear ratios. When the loads get higher, I would expect the performance of the TS to be greater, say roll on accelleration in 3rd gear at 3,800 RPM...or the like. A head to head performance test would be great. 0-60, 1/4 mile, 50mph-150mph, etc. Someone arrange that one, will ya?

I don't believe a top end speed comparison really tells the whole picture...you have to get there first.

Save me the details on the 9-mile burnouts

Bill Ball

In the last open road race George was limited by safety equipment to a 180 tech limit and was radared officially at 179 at one point on the course. You are DQ'd if you are exceed tech by even 0.01. So, George walked the line about as good as you can. I really shouldn't say he went over 180, at least publicly.

We'll be swapping a 2.2 ratio AT into George's car this winter and he'll be upgrading safety equipment for next season. He has the HP to do 200+ with the right gears and safety equipment. The Murph kit took George's S4 from 250 RWHP to 437. Yeah, Baby!

BC

I'll give you whatever times you want John, as long as when you get them you start posting here with non-biased info and actual facts instead of opinion based on your business plan.

Ketchmi

We have an 89' running 500rwhp, same gearing as George currently has, will top out at about the same speed but get there a bit quicker...

Then again, he's running 295/35/18"s so due to the taller tire a touch more speed is gained. He has not done it in an open road race (yet) but he has taken it into redline in high gear...in theory of course...he would never do it on a public highway like I80...on the way to Wendover...

Jim_H

Bill Ball

Unfortunately, a dead-even shootout like this is impractically difficult (putting 3 systems in the same car, same test conditions, etc.), so we will always have bench arguments here and people criticizing the way others do and report test results.

BC

I'm just saying that I would be happy to take my stock S4 engined but Vortech boosted car when it is completed (the time is soon) and provide these numbers.

Bill Ball

Looking forward to it!

Your results will be more fuel for the fire.

Fabio421

Maybe a head to head grudge match isn't too far out of the question. I would imagine that this years sitm will have enough sc'ed cars running around that this may be possible. Of course we may not get an exact same apples to apples comparison due to MY and gearing differences but isn't the debate what keeps this whole topic interesting. Heck, we might even get lucky enough to have a Turbo'd car or two there if we are lucky. But that is a fruit of the citrus variety, right John .
I think the most honest answer to this fella's question would be: At the current time. There isn't enough imperical data to prove one is better over another. There are lots of opinions and claims. This is a very heated debate that I for one, have been following closely. I intend to boost my car within the next year so all of this is very interesting reading to me. What isn't quite so interesting is all of the seemingly bad blood between the different boost factions. I find the petty bickering and jab's to be a little jeuvenile. But maybe it's just me. I think that a stock shark is damn fun to drive. So adding lots of HP and torque can only make it that much more enjoyable. Regardless of who's method you choose to boost with, the fun 'o' meter is going to go up.
To all of the boost pioneers
To all the haters

Bill Ball

Fabio421:

Louie928

I was priveledged to drive Jim's TS GT shortly after he had it installed. It was amazing in it's performance of course, but what struck me was that it didn't feel any different than if the engine had been given about 6 more cylinders. Gobs of instant mid range torque. Very smooth. The added torque was very even and didn't come on in a rush. Hardly any more noise. It was a surprise to see how soon the 50+% power increase felt "normal" again and you began thinking of something to get more. At the SC install party in late March it appared that the simpler Eaton conversions without the IC were pretty easy to put on and didn't require any fussing to get the A/F mixture right. They pretty much worked right out of the box and gave 5 - 6 psi boost. Sealing of the intake & SC base was very important and was about the only problem.

Herr-Kuhn

There is much more work to be done on these fronts...more data coming next year. Now...I'm off to pick up the Callaway's new manifolds (FINALLY) and I have the weekend to fabricate a new set of downpipes. Then it is off to SwainTech for some true ceramic coatings...gotta finish this car soon so I can get started on my apple, even though it is now orange season...not to mention quite cold here.

Brendan, how about you and I contact European Car upon completion of the S4 cars? One hired gun driver and then publish the results for the world to see. Seems reasonable, doesn't it? Twin Screw vs. Vortech vs. Turbo....say 8 psig give or take. Not sure what you mean about the business plan comment, those were all technical comments, and true ones at that. Here are my actual data points Brendan.

Twin Turbo IHI RHB-6 on 1981 4.5 liters/ 5-spd: 8 psig: 355 ft-lbs, 302 RWHP, 12psig 385 ft-lbs, 366 RWHP.

Twin Turbo K-24 on 4.5/ 3-spd AT liters: 9 psig: 353 ft-lbs, 270 RWHP..small turbos, 100F day, 5 consecutive dyno pulls. 0-60 5.2 seconds, 13.6@108 MPH.

Twin Turbo K-26 on 1981 4.5 liter-slightly larger cams/ 5-speed: COMING SOON...

I still stand by my statement of the TS being the better machine. Just take a peek at what the OEMs use these days. After hearing a Vortech (granted it had straight cut gears) I realize I would not want one under my hood...sounded like a can of marbles to me. Turbo=quiet.

IcemanG17

Jim
163 @ the GT's higher redline (mine is 6200 what is the GT?)....Using a 24.7" tire (stock) with a 2.72 FD @ 6000 rpm = 162.16....
I always thought GT's would do about 175-185 with the right tires and stock gearing....I remember Rick Kongs GT stroker rated at 185mph (400whp)?

Kibort put up a gearing formula website a few days ago...using a 25" tire with the final drive of 2.20 and 6200 rpm speed I think calculated to about 210mph? It didn't count drag or HP either...just gearing-rpm's...heres a simliar site

http://www.mustangii.net/topspeed.asp

It does seem a tad optimistic...since 3000rpm in with stock tires and a 2.20 is 100mph....when 90ish is more accurate