Bang, you're dead. 1 Shark, 1 kill. :)
09-26-2005, 04:52 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
I just checked out some of the videos on that GN TT. Freaking awesome... although watching the front suspension turn into silly putty when the front wheels touch down illustrates just how marginal the suspension is on these cars...
09-26-2005, 04:52 PM
#32
Drifting
i remember having a short sprint with some friends one evening on the way back from bowling and its just so much fun to overtake under braking! they all came back and just looked at the brakes.... its definitely an area porsche dont skimp on!
09-26-2005, 06:14 PM
#33
Banned
Thread Starter
I do know what you're talking about Shark Skin, having spent 5 years as an auto tech i've certainly seen my fair share of rusting gms, fords, and chryslers, lol.
However, if well kept and properly maintained a GN is capable of a very long service life while maintaining it's cosmetic appeal(garaging it sure helps).
Here's a few pix of my old T-type with 20yo original paint(it's actually in much better shape than the paint on my shark to be honest):
(this motor pic was right after i first got the car, it looked much prettier and cleaner when i sold it, lol)
However as an overall package, i 100% agree that a porsche is built to a much higher standard of fit and finish. But then, it should be....it sure costs a lot more, and that's what you're mostly paying for.
However, if well kept and properly maintained a GN is capable of a very long service life while maintaining it's cosmetic appeal(garaging it sure helps).
Here's a few pix of my old T-type with 20yo original paint(it's actually in much better shape than the paint on my shark to be honest):
(this motor pic was right after i first got the car, it looked much prettier and cleaner when i sold it, lol)
However as an overall package, i 100% agree that a porsche is built to a much higher standard of fit and finish. But then, it should be....it sure costs a lot more, and that's what you're mostly paying for.
09-26-2005, 07:28 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by m21sniper
If you see one of these coming up fast on the highway...just yield. .
Yeah, cause chances are that box has very little downforce when running down the road at that speed on it's (superior) American suspension. And when it takes off like a kite you don't want to be anywhere near it.
09-26-2005, 07:38 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by m21sniper
The ONLY reason that Porsche could claim the 928S4 was the fastest production car sold in N.America is because the GN came with a factory electronically limited top speed of 130mph.
Possibly.... but more likely the (superior) American engineers rightly figured the car was unstable at anything more than 130mph.
09-26-2005, 07:41 PM
#36
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Yeah, cause chances are that box has very little downforce when running down the road at that speed on it's (superior) American suspension. And when it takes off like a kite you don't want to be anywhere near it.
How eloquently put...
Cheers
09-26-2005, 10:27 PM
#38
Banned
Thread Starter
928Drvr- "nahhhh, I'm just pulling your chain."
No worries bro, you ask fair and valid questions, so please allow me to explain.
I never said the 928 is inferior as a total package.
In fact, for what the 928 is- a top end GT, it is clearly the best car of it's class, probably ever...just as the GN is the best car of it's class for what it is- a classical American muscle car, again, maybe ever(clearly it is better handling/braking/refinement/reliability wise than any of the 60s muscle cars).
As far as high speed aerodynamics, NASCAR ran the same exact body style for many years, and they sure seemed pretty stable at 190 mph +. Now of course you'll protest that those have race prepped suspensions with full tubular chasis, and of course you're right. However, the T-Type/GN had a vastly improved suspension vs the Standard "G" bodies, and there are so many reasonably priced aftermarket suspension/chassis enhancements available that it's really not hard at all to get them to be very good handlers(again- for what they are). Coil-over gas charged shocks, poly bushings, oversize f/r swaybars, and various chasis braces are all available through POSTON, and are very reasonably priced. About the only thing you can't get around is the solid rear axle...but then, those that want the muscle car feel DON'T want an IRS anyway. Remember, the GN is not a road car, it's a straight line performer that is readily adaptable to give good service on an oval.
Hell, look at the 1/4 mile trap speeds of some of the pictured GNs above...163mph, 168mph, 171mph, and 178mph...and those are door slammers(a door slammer is a car with full street functionality, ie lights, operable doors, mirrors, interior, etc, and oft times they're actually still street legal- and driven on the street regularly).
The reason i sold my T-type was because i can really only afford one hotrod/sports car toy, and as a TOTAL PACKAGE(looks, handling, braking, interior comfort, etc, etc), i feel the 928 offers more for my money(And to be honest, it offers more for the money than probably any performance car on the market today).
And to be honest originally i had planned on just turning the 928 around for a nice profit. Then i made the mistake of driving it....and the rest is history.
It did kill me to sell yhe t-type though.
A 928 with Buick Turbo V-6 power would IMO offer the best of both worlds...and on a reasonable budget.
PS: The GN was factory limited wrt top end for insurance purposes. It was also discontinued for insurance purposes. However if you want a car with Turbo V-6 performance and good handling, the 1989 Pontiac Turbo Trans am is the way to go. They had the intercooled turbo V-6(with some enhancements), ran a 13.5 from the factory(unchipped), and came standard with the WS6 handling package. They're also very, very expensive cars. I saw one at Faulkner Cadillac about three years ago with 170k miles on the odometer retailing for $18,000 dollars!
That ad is true btw. It was the only car up to that time that paced the Indy 500 that required no modifications from street form whatsoever. BTW, the horsepower 'claims' in that add are a flat lie. The 3.8 V-6 was deliberately underrated by Buick and Pontiac because of the GM edict that no GM car could be offered with more advertised HP than the Corvette of the same year. Actual HP was over 300.
No worries bro, you ask fair and valid questions, so please allow me to explain.
I never said the 928 is inferior as a total package.
In fact, for what the 928 is- a top end GT, it is clearly the best car of it's class, probably ever...just as the GN is the best car of it's class for what it is- a classical American muscle car, again, maybe ever(clearly it is better handling/braking/refinement/reliability wise than any of the 60s muscle cars).
As far as high speed aerodynamics, NASCAR ran the same exact body style for many years, and they sure seemed pretty stable at 190 mph +. Now of course you'll protest that those have race prepped suspensions with full tubular chasis, and of course you're right. However, the T-Type/GN had a vastly improved suspension vs the Standard "G" bodies, and there are so many reasonably priced aftermarket suspension/chassis enhancements available that it's really not hard at all to get them to be very good handlers(again- for what they are). Coil-over gas charged shocks, poly bushings, oversize f/r swaybars, and various chasis braces are all available through POSTON, and are very reasonably priced. About the only thing you can't get around is the solid rear axle...but then, those that want the muscle car feel DON'T want an IRS anyway. Remember, the GN is not a road car, it's a straight line performer that is readily adaptable to give good service on an oval.
Hell, look at the 1/4 mile trap speeds of some of the pictured GNs above...163mph, 168mph, 171mph, and 178mph...and those are door slammers(a door slammer is a car with full street functionality, ie lights, operable doors, mirrors, interior, etc, and oft times they're actually still street legal- and driven on the street regularly).
The reason i sold my T-type was because i can really only afford one hotrod/sports car toy, and as a TOTAL PACKAGE(looks, handling, braking, interior comfort, etc, etc), i feel the 928 offers more for my money(And to be honest, it offers more for the money than probably any performance car on the market today).
And to be honest originally i had planned on just turning the 928 around for a nice profit. Then i made the mistake of driving it....and the rest is history.
It did kill me to sell yhe t-type though.
A 928 with Buick Turbo V-6 power would IMO offer the best of both worlds...and on a reasonable budget.
PS: The GN was factory limited wrt top end for insurance purposes. It was also discontinued for insurance purposes. However if you want a car with Turbo V-6 performance and good handling, the 1989 Pontiac Turbo Trans am is the way to go. They had the intercooled turbo V-6(with some enhancements), ran a 13.5 from the factory(unchipped), and came standard with the WS6 handling package. They're also very, very expensive cars. I saw one at Faulkner Cadillac about three years ago with 170k miles on the odometer retailing for $18,000 dollars!
That ad is true btw. It was the only car up to that time that paced the Indy 500 that required no modifications from street form whatsoever. BTW, the horsepower 'claims' in that add are a flat lie. The 3.8 V-6 was deliberately underrated by Buick and Pontiac because of the GM edict that no GM car could be offered with more advertised HP than the Corvette of the same year. Actual HP was over 300.
Last edited by m21sniper; 09-26-2005 at 10:52 PM.
09-26-2005, 10:36 PM
#39
Banned
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by SharkSkin
I just checked out some of the videos on that GN TT. Freaking awesome... although watching the front suspension turn into silly putty when the front wheels touch down illustrates just how marginal the suspension is on these cars...
However unlike a 928 you can change all 4 shocks on a GN in about 45 minutes tops, so it's not really that big an issue, a lot of guys swap in 90/10 fr, 50/50 rear drag shocks on track days, and put the coil overs back in afterwards.
09-26-2005, 10:40 PM
#40
Banned
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by 928drvr86.5
Possibly.... but more likely the (superior) American engineers rightly figured the car was unstable at anything more than 130mph.
If anyone can show me a German equivelant to the F-22 Raptor or B-2 bomber, or an Italian equivelant to a Sea Wolf class nuclear attack submarine, or a Japanese equivelant to the 20yo Aegis fleet air defense system i will re-evaluate my position.
09-27-2005, 01:49 AM
#41
Banned
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by SMTCapeCod
There's still a strong community around the 3000GT/Stealth platform...its interesting to participate in because the ages of the owners are all over the place. Seems that a lot of folks with a good deal of dsiposable income are picking them up and going full-bore on the mods, making them dedicated track cars. Various results are here: http://www.3squicklist.com/ Which is kind-of counterintuitive because, like the 928, they are heavy cruisers more than anything else. Http://www.dynamicracing.com is one of the primary tuners that are supporting a good deal of the craziness. DNPerformance too. Like 928s they get rattly windows...they have a couple of switches prone to failure...both cars are really testament to what happens with the manufacturer tries to go to the edge of existing technology and complexity, and build a car with limited production numbers.
09-27-2005, 05:12 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by m21sniper
That's actually a function of the 90/10 drag shocks most top end GNs run. They're designed to unload all their energy very quickly under acceleration in order to maximize weight transfer to the rear. There's a method to the madness there. With good coilovers it would behave a lot differently, but would suffer on the launch.
http://fasttrackperformance.com/page...R2QualChow.wmv
The shocks are not doing anything strange. Note the relative locations of the front spindle and the rocker panel. Pay attention only to vertical movement between these reference points. The shocks are definitely doing their job, smoothly taking up the impact of landing and allowing the springs to toss the front end back up. I know exactly what that's all about. What I'm referring to is the way that the front end -- a-arms, steering linkage, bushings, some combination or all three are acting like wet noodles with regard to keeping the wheels pointed where they are supposed to be pointed. That's a completely seprate issue, and there ain't a shock in the world that will change it.
09-27-2005, 10:22 AM
#43
Banned
Thread Starter
LOL, god damn that is one badassed car.
Yeah, i see what you're talking about. Not exactly a scenario a street level GN will find itself in though.
Here's a link to a lot of GN videos:
http://www.bgnra.org/multimedia.htm
Yeah, i see what you're talking about. Not exactly a scenario a street level GN will find itself in though.
Here's a link to a lot of GN videos:
http://www.bgnra.org/multimedia.htm
Last edited by m21sniper; 09-27-2005 at 10:53 AM.
09-27-2005, 12:13 PM
#44
Race Car
Originally Posted by m21sniper
My old man's next door neighbor has a VR4, super clean, and he's a very wealthy guy(his other car is an XK8 convertible). They are sharp looking cars, i've just always stayed away from them because of the oil pump issues. Im not a big fan of the 'stuck on' looling strut covers on the hood either.
09-27-2005, 04:18 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by m21sniper
Yeah, i see what you're talking about. Not exactly a scenario a street level GN will find itself in though.
