Herr-Kuhn

$1,400? How much profit are you taking!? I won't mention what I pay for this process. Also, I disagree that US Chrome is the only viable option out there. Millennium does all of the EBS work and more and can also do the 928/944 blocks. My Millennium block has over 10,000 miles on it now without incident. I've been one of the biggest supporters of this technology for the 928 for some time now. It is far superior to sleeving...I guess now that someone is "marketing" this you will all finally agree.

Garth S

Carl,
You (guys) keep comming up with such innovative products and services .....

mark kibort

$1400, why dont you just find a used short block and re-ring it! ha ha

Hey, there is hope for Scots used block (ugly!!!) now if we can find two 4.7 2nd size oversized piston we will be in business! if it cant be fixed its a bore job and finding some used 5 liter pistons with flycuts already done!

Mk

BC

This is a great thing Carl. I also like t he fact that you toured the facility.

It also good that you will be a wholesale go between for the 928 customers, as there are always snags being a single customer going into a large company like this.

I'm sure your lobbing on behalf of a large group of customers will benefit us all.

No were are those JE pistons kits?

Rob Roy

So is $1,400 reasonable? If it is, then great job Carl!!! If it is not, I'd probably still use Carl's service to help support another great innovator in the 928 market place.

Question - I have an '86 5.0L block with Euro heads & intake that I'll be using. With out going to a stroker, what sort of bore options do I have with this process and aftermarket pistons? How much displacement can I gain vs. thinning the walls too much, especially if I want to supercharge at a later date? That being said, if I do supercharge, are there aftermarket pistons readily available to help reduce compression and also to avoid having to dish the original pistons?

Mark K. (sorry for the thread hijack), did that 4.7L block work for you? Not knowing its history I hoped that it would. If it did not, please PM me.

Carl Fausett

I expected to hear about Millennium Plating and about the $1400 price tag.

Here are my answers:

Millennium Plating (also in WI) was created by 3 employees of US Chrome that left to create their own Company. Because of concern of slander, I will not share with you the conditions of their leaving.

But - I will not work with them - and you need to know that their vat and plating formulas are dated 1998.... or 8 years now behind the times. The chief chemist at US Chrome is a Phd Chemical Engineer and has been busy improving and adjusting the formulas constantly since those Millennium boys split from them 8 years ago. We cannot say the same for the Millennium process - I do not know if it has kept up with the evolution in the industry - I only know that the US Chrome process has.

Herr-Kuhn - glad to hear your plate job has lasted 10,000 miles, it certainly should. I am pleased to offer Nikasil to my customers running Alusil blocks - and my endorsement of the process does not mean I have "changed sides" on the cylinder sleeving issue as you suggest.

Steel cylinder sleeves are still a viable option for boosted engines where tuliping or trumpeting of the cylinder walls at high pressure is a problem. Read "high pressure" - those of you running 9 psi or less have nothing to fear IMHO.

But - there are those that want to push north of 10 psi and there Nikasil plating on your Alusil block will not be strong enough. You can weld in an aluminum strengthening web from the outside - like some have done - or you can insert a steel sleeve in the inside - like some have done.

What I am saying - both processes have their benefits and application.

About the price tag:

It is getting harder and harder to change the vats of chemicals and properly dispose of the used/toxic acids and greasy washes. I have watched as "dipping" charges at every engine builder go up and up and they change their dunk tanks less and less often. You might have read my thread on cleaning a engine block that had been tanked and how much crap we removed from it.

So - be careful not to compare an invoice you saw 3 years ago for dunking and plating with one from 2005.

Is it expensive? Not if you realize that it is less than half the cost of purchasing a new block (if there is one available!) And small local machine shops cannot produce the NiCom coating or the quality diamond finish honing you need.

How expensive is a finished engine, assembled and in the car, that doesn't last? Now THAT's expensive!

Carl Fausett

Brendan C: I can set you up in JE or Arias pistons. Not certain we are going to offer a "kit" as each guy has a little somthing else in mind than the next fella - but tell me what you want and we will get you hooked up.

slate blue

As to pistons why wouldn't you use Mahle? They have the best pistons at very affordable prices, some will fit straight of the shelf as long as you also change the rods.There are also made form the correct 4032 material.

As to Millenium, they also use the German silicon carbide, these formulations are all copies of Mahle's, just ask them, sure they all say theirs is different, but variations on a theme I would say. Mahle even say Perfect Bore's formulation is a copy. The quality of the raw ingrediants is very important, likewise the accuracy of the finishing process.

Carl since there is a 2 valve Mahle piston cheaply available, why don't you try and find a 4 valve replacement, that would be a great step forward for the 928 community.

I have attached a photo of the 2 valve piston.



I will give you a thumbs up on the engine mounts. They are great, drove the car, it's perfect.

nine-44

Hmm, I have about 4 or 5 blocks that are in need.

BC

What other info have you acquired on sleeving? Did you successfully get someone to do it locally to you?

Ketchmi

U.S. Chrome damaged two of the five blocks that I sent them over the years, and never covered the repair costs. As far as repairing the cylinders, hell I can do that in house. I certainly can't plate them. The other problems that U.S. Chrome has is they always promised to cover the holes for the main and head studs with wax and never did. This lead to increased tolerances and sloppy fit especially on the main dowel locators. Not a good thing with increased power requirements.

They used to plate the blocks for $1000. Have the prices increased that much?

The other problem with this coating is that it is suseptable to certain fuel additives.

Some engines have been destroyed by the gasoline in the South.

Made for racing for certain. Just makes sure your gas is right!

Just my opinion.

Carl Fausett

Glad you like them. Did you notice they are metric-threaded and we provided the new Grade 8.8 nuts too?

Carl Fausett

Ketchmi - Thank you for sharing - I will take that up with them on Monday. It is very important that ALL STEEL be removed from the block before it is tanked and plated - that is why all the steel pins that help locate the head for example have to be pulled out before the block is plated.

(Ketchmi - I know you know this, I am just explaining to others)

They use a lacquer resin paint to coat those things like the main bearing bosses in our blocks.... anywhere you do not want etching or plating to change the dimensional tolerances. Sounds like your locater pin holes were not covered.
Grrr. That kind of stuff drives me nuts. When did this happen to you?

(Remind me over a beer at Sharktoberfest to tell you how Kelly-Moss hosed my son and I on a ruined 951 head - shaved so low after fill-welding that it bent all the valves and damaged the ceramic-top pistons - big bux - no satisfaction - not a dime from Kelly-Moss)

Our $1395.00 price includes 1) de-greasing, tanking, washing and etching 2) cylinder boring 3) NiCom plating, and 4) finish honing. That's a lot.

Carl Fausett

While I was there, they were doing the Corvette Racing Team C5-R race engines for General Motors; the Harley-Davidson Racing cylinders, the DART racing motors, and Mercury-Marine Racing engine blocks.

Took pictures of them personally which you can see here:
http://www.928motorsports.com/services/uschrome.html

These are impressive contracts that they would not have if they were botching the work.

This is why I personally went to their plant to watch for a couple hours, see what kind of engines were coming thru, who THEIR clients were, etc. before I would recommend or refer my prized 928 customers to them.

FlyingDog

Carl, a little off topic, but from your picture...

#6 What block is that??? It looks very strange.

#11 That looks like an open deck block like a 928 or 944. What is it?