Cracks in GTS Rims - Now With Pics
09-21-2005, 05:54 PM
#1
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Cracks in GTS Rims - Now With Pics
As some of you may recall, a while back I posted my GTS rims for sale here and eventually sold them to Hacker.
The old rims were removed, and my tires were re-mounted on my new Mille Miglia rims by a tire shop in SLC. I didn't even look at the old rims after they were removed. The tire shop just put them in the same boxes my new rims came in, and my friends at Motorsport shipped them off to Hacker.
Unfortunately, when Hacker received the rims, three of them had pretty impressive radial cracks involving the inside lip of the rims. Hacker has pics - I hope he posts them. You'll be impressed. By looking at Hacker's pics, the cracks seem to be old. There is a lot of tire grunge over the cracks and even down into the cracks in some photos. (You'd think the tire shop would have noticed them and mentioned them to someone! But, in their defense, I'm not sure they knew the rims were going to be sold. Maybe they just thought I was going to haul them to the dump.)
I was never aware of the cracks - and never had any problems with the rims. They always held air just fine.
At any rate, Hacker and I are OK about this. We're working out a fair resolution.
However, both of us think it's worth discussing the issue so the 928 community learns about this potential problem. You guys might want to carefully inspect the inside of your rims from time to time.
Edit: These are Hacker's pics. Hope he doesn't mind if I share them. I don't know when he'll visit this thread, and some of you guys may want to see them sooner rather than later.
http://www.erik27.com/79928/wheels
The old rims were removed, and my tires were re-mounted on my new Mille Miglia rims by a tire shop in SLC. I didn't even look at the old rims after they were removed. The tire shop just put them in the same boxes my new rims came in, and my friends at Motorsport shipped them off to Hacker.
Unfortunately, when Hacker received the rims, three of them had pretty impressive radial cracks involving the inside lip of the rims. Hacker has pics - I hope he posts them. You'll be impressed. By looking at Hacker's pics, the cracks seem to be old. There is a lot of tire grunge over the cracks and even down into the cracks in some photos. (You'd think the tire shop would have noticed them and mentioned them to someone! But, in their defense, I'm not sure they knew the rims were going to be sold. Maybe they just thought I was going to haul them to the dump.)
I was never aware of the cracks - and never had any problems with the rims. They always held air just fine.
At any rate, Hacker and I are OK about this. We're working out a fair resolution.
However, both of us think it's worth discussing the issue so the 928 community learns about this potential problem. You guys might want to carefully inspect the inside of your rims from time to time.
Edit: These are Hacker's pics. Hope he doesn't mind if I share them. I don't know when he'll visit this thread, and some of you guys may want to see them sooner rather than later.
http://www.erik27.com/79928/wheels
Last edited by bigs; 09-21-2005 at 06:46 PM.
09-21-2005, 06:20 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Mille Miglia rims are GTS replicas. I do know that these rims are much weaker than the factory hollow spokes. I've had them on several 928's and they are guaranteed to bend at some point...
09-21-2005, 06:22 PM
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Same problem on one of my rears - one large crack on the inside rim - slow loss of air alerted me to it. Had the rim welded and all seems fine now.
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Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission?
George Layton March 2014928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
09-21-2005, 06:29 PM
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Weissach I believe those were factory wheels as are the ones on Roger's GTS. So factory wheels crack but replica wheels bend ?
09-21-2005, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Weissach
Mille Miglia rims are GTS replicas. I do know that these rims are much weaker than the factory hollow spokes. I've had them on several 928's and they are guaranteed to bend at some point...
I don't know about the Mille's, but I'm not sure I'm real impressed with the factory originals!
09-21-2005, 07:02 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
But how may miles did the factory ones have before they cracked(Probaly happend in shipping)? Cracks are obviously related to curb rashes or other extremes. Bent rims usually happen with pot holes. Having low profile tires, both of these rimes will aventually bend. But the factory ones last much longer. I haven't been able to get more than 6k on aftermarket rims without a some sort of bend.
Another point. Having a bent rim is not immediately noticable or visible, you just might notice a slight jiggle over 70 mph. If you have a jiggle that won't go away, even with new tires, it's usually a bent rim.
Another point. Having a bent rim is not immediately noticable or visible, you just might notice a slight jiggle over 70 mph. If you have a jiggle that won't go away, even with new tires, it's usually a bent rim.
09-21-2005, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Weissach
But how may miles did the factory ones have before they cracked(Probaly happend in shipping)? Cracks are obviously related to curb rashes or other extremes. Bent rims usually happen with pot holes. Having low profile tires, both of these rimes will aventually bend. But the factory ones last much longer. I haven't been able to get more than 6k on aftermarket rims without a some sort of bend.
Another point. Having a bent rim is not immediately noticable or visible, you just might notice a slight jiggle over 70 mph. If you have a jiggle that won't go away, even with new tires, it's usually a bent rim.
Another point. Having a bent rim is not immediately noticable or visible, you just might notice a slight jiggle over 70 mph. If you have a jiggle that won't go away, even with new tires, it's usually a bent rim.
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09-21-2005, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Weissach
Wow! Those are some severe cracks. Looks like they were shipped via UPS ground...
Maybe rough seas?
09-21-2005, 07:50 PM
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The old BBS honeycomb wheels (popular and expensive in the late 1980s)it is very common to find the inner wheel half cracked . The offset makes the inside rim subject to more flex and ultimately cracking.
09-21-2005, 07:53 PM
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Like bigs said - Inspect your wheels!!!! Jim Page (my mechanic) has changed thousands of wheels in the 30+ years he has been working on cars, he has never seen this before.
Here is the e-mail conversation I had with Wheel Technologies about the cracks:
Here is the e-mail conversation I had with Wheel Technologies about the cracks:
Originally Posted by me
On the web link below are pictures from my cracked wheels. These are OEM Porsche wheels off a 1993 928. Three of the four wheels are cracked. These wheels are to be used on the race track if that makes any difference. Can you quote a ball park figure for repairing them?
Originally Posted by their response
TO BE HONEST, THE WHEELS COULD BE FIXED,BUT IF I WERE IN THAT SITUATION I WOULD BUY A NEW SET OF WHEELS. THE REASON BEING IS THAT THE WHEELS ARE CRACKED FOR A REASON,THAT REASON IS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN STRESSED TOO MUCH. WHAT WE WOULD DO IS WELD UP THE CRACKS AND GRIND DOWN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE ON THE WELD ,BUT THE WHEELS WILL JUST KEEP ON CRACKING,SO ESSENTIALLY THEY ARE NO GOOD AND YOU WILL SPEND MORE MONEY AND TIME GETTING THEM FIXED THAN ACTUALLY GETTING TO RACE ON THEM.
Originally Posted by me again
Thanks for the response, problem is these wheels are very rare. They were only offered from 93-95 on Porsche 928's, the front offset is unique to this model. Depending on the price, I might be willing to gamble on a repair.
Is this an issue where eventually the crack will go all the way across, possibly breaking down while in use? What I cannot believe is the car these just came off, never had a low or flat tire. They were holding air just fine.
Is this an issue where eventually the crack will go all the way across, possibly breaking down while in use? What I cannot believe is the car these just came off, never had a low or flat tire. They were holding air just fine.
Originally Posted by their response
I WOULDN'T SAY CRACK ALL THE WAY ACROSS, BUT WILL NEVER BE A STRUCTURLY SOUND AS THEY FIRST WERE. THEY WILL JUST CONTINUE CRACKING IN THE SAME SPOT. THAT WOULD BE MY ONLY CONCERN... THE PRICE TO RECON THE WHEELS ARE 125.00 EACH. THE PROCESS ONLY TAKES 24 HOURS, BUT THE SHIPPING IS NORMALLY 3-7 BUSINESS DAYS.....
09-21-2005, 08:00 PM
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The shape and colouration of the radial fissures suggests a metal fatigue failure vs impact damage: this may be the result of a bad (process control) day at the factory when the alloy was cast. Fortunately, the cracks are removed from the tire bead point area - which controls the pressure seal of tire/rim. Still - pretty nasty; however, as with Rogers experience, welding may work well.
09-21-2005, 08:02 PM
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Cracked a Porsche Dyno rim once. Hit highway pothole hard. Bent rim and
cracked the cast alloy rim. But that had obvious bend.
Wasn't any pic of the full wheel. Are the cracks even along the rim edge?
And how was the rear wheel alignment on the GTS wheels were on?
Massive rear wheel camber? As in inside edge of rear tires worn in
couple thousand miles.
I've bent BBS rims before. But never cracked aluminum before till the Porsche factory
rim died.
Ernest (NYC)
cracked the cast alloy rim. But that had obvious bend.
Wasn't any pic of the full wheel. Are the cracks even along the rim edge?
And how was the rear wheel alignment on the GTS wheels were on?
Massive rear wheel camber? As in inside edge of rear tires worn in
couple thousand miles.
I've bent BBS rims before. But never cracked aluminum before till the Porsche factory
rim died.
Ernest (NYC)