So, I finally got everything put back together for my intake refresh after relying heavily on Dave C's (worf928) excellent intake refresh document:

http://928oc.org/journal/intake1b.pdf

-Replaced flappy valve (was sticking, so definitely a worthwhile effort)
-Had fuel injectors serviced
-Replaced all rubber hoses and some suspect vaccuum tubes

Put it all back together, and it started right up! Wonder of wonders!

Here are the problems:

-Leaking coolant when engine starts to warm up. The only coolant related service I did in the refresh was having to loosen the bolts in the rear of the engine for the water jacket. Verified those are tight and not leaking. The leak appears to be coming from the front lower right of the engine, above the A/C pump. Is this the location of the water pump? I can't see how anything I did may have contributed to the water pump leaking, and it was only replaced 1 1/2 years and 1,000 miles ago. Is this the water pump, and is there a fix or do I need to replace it again? It wasn't leaking prior to the intake refresh, but the car has been sitting on jackstands and not started up for around 4 months.

-High idle speed. When starting the car up, it idles around 1500 RPM, and doesn't really drop below 1,000 RPM when warming up. This is higher than the normal 750 idle RPM - did I do something wrong, or do I need to adjust the idle speed? On the plus side, the car does not seem to have the jumpy idle speed it did before the refresh.

-All dash lights come on when key is turned to on, but go off when car is started. This didn't happen before the refresh, and it doesn't do it in my 88 928. Turning the key to on makes all dash lights go on, and a warning tone sounds for about 5-10 seconds then goes off. The Warning light on the dash goes on too, and won't clear when I push the button. When I start the car though, all the lights go off. What could I have done to cause this?

Again, the car seems to start up and run fine, so I can't imagine I put anything electrical in backwards, although anything is possible with these cars right? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Bill

 

The coolant leak will be a hose connection .... if you are lucky. Check the hose on the T-stat housing under the top rad hose for a starter. A pressure test on the coolant system will help in the drip cannot be backtracked.
The higher idle speed is likely a vacuum hose open - or the throttle cable too tight ( either throttle body side re its pulley, or on the quadrant).
Don't know about the warning - except to ask if one of the pod icons is flashing also?

 

Bill,

1. Check all hoses, but if not there is a bolt holding the TB tensioner that I believe goes through the water jacket in that area, maybe pull the passenger side cover and take a look. Otherwise, might be the water pump.

2. The high idle may be a vacuum leak. Another possibility is the throttle cable being off the pulley under the rear of the intake manifold, or just needs to be adjusted properly.

#. You are on your own there, I suck at electrical problems.

Jim

 

Thanks Garth and Jim -

I checked all the coolant hoses in the top housing - none of them are leaking. It definitely is farther down the front of the engine. I will check the bolt you mentioned Jim, but I know that is nothing I have loosened during the intake work. However, both of you have mostly confirmed my suspicion - the water pump is in that area and may be the leaky culprit. Weird how that would happen after all the intake work.

As for the idle - I am able to blip the throttle easily, so I don't think there is anything stuck on the cable, but I have a feeling it is a little tight after all the work being done, so I will see what I can loosen up to lower the idle.

As for the instrument panel, I don't know whether to be worried or not - everything goes away on start up, but I wonder if all of the lights on the panel lighting up mean a short somewhere? The only flashing item is the actual warning light/button on the dash - nothing on the actual pod warning lights is flashing - very strange...

Thanks again for the replies!

Bill

 

Bill, check the accelerator pedal cable where it goes INTO the fire wall. Make sure that that end of the cable is firmly and correctly seated in the hole at the fire wall. During the intake R&R the go-pedal-cable goes slack and the connection at the wall can fall out with the result that there will be pre-load on the cable once you've put everything back together.

If your idle was correct before the intake R&R it should be correct after. You should not have to adjust the cable - unless you 'adjusted' it as part of the intake R&R.

One way to check if the cable is returning all the way is to stick your ear down next to the WOT/Idle switch. Twist the linkage to simulate stepping on the gas. Release. If the throttle plate is closing all the way you should hear a very faint metallic 'click' from the bowels of the intake.

If the cable really is where it should be then you've got a vacuum leak. I suggest getting your inspection mirror out and check the hose connections that go into the MAS's rubber elbow; it is not too difficult to pull out the plastic y connectors when wrestling the intake into place. Double check all the hose clamps etc. Also, check that the intake is firmly and correctly seated on the heads.

As for the coolant - are you SURE that it is coolant and not fuel? The only fluid that could be leaking at the front right (above A/C and airpumps) as a direct result of your intake R&R is fuel from the passenger side fuel rail.

 

I having a little trouble visualizing precisely what you're describing above. Please bear with me...

Normally when you turn the key to the 'on' position all the warning lights on the dash come on? yes?

Once the car is started all the dash warning lights should go out? yes?

What is different in your case?

The warning tone is not due to the fact that the door is open? As in it's not the door-open-key-in-the-ignition warning tone?

The red 'central warning light' is on. Is there no indication of any other warning? Brake light check warning? Coolant?

Do the gauges read normally? Volt meter in the 13-14 range? Oil pressure at 5 bar?

Have you checked the level of coolant in the reservoir?

 

Dave - sorry - I checked on my other shark re: the idiot lights on the dash and it does the same thing. I think I was overly paranoid about screwing things up and wasn't thinking clearly. So, that is one thing less to worry about.

As for the throttle cable - it doesn't seem to be bound up, I will check the adjustment on the throttle cable and see if that is the issue.

Also, it absolutely is coolant that is leaking- has a nice green tint to it that I know the local Shell is not putting in their gas . Once the engine starts to warm up it starts to drip pretty steady, and since there are no hoses that are leaking, the only thing I can assume is it is the waterpump - I will snap a pic tonight of the leaking so you can see what I mean...

Thanks for all the help!

Bill

 

As Jim noted, there is one of the tensioner mounting bolts that requires sealant - for it does enter the coolant jacket .... just can't recall which one, but it may also retain the center cover.

 

Ok good. I know how easy it is to see demons in the mist when something isn't quite right after a big job.


If you didn't change the adjustment of the cables during the intake R&R then - really - don't start until you have ruled out all other causes. If you didn't change the adjustment then you have some other issue; changing the adjustment now will only hide the real issue.

The most likely explanations for the too-high idle are:

1) Cable issue
2) Big vacuum leak after the MAS.

For the cable issue, I would start by checking the gas-pedal cable at the fire wall. And make sure that the other end of this cable is fully inserted into the correct location on the intake-mounted bracket. If you believe that it is allowing full movement, then remove that cable from the bracket on the side of the intake (barbed connection as described in my R&R procedure.) Then move on to the throttle cable itself and make sure that full open/closed movement is possible. (You can also remove the tempostat (cruise control) cable)

For the throttle cable:

- Make sure that it is going around the pulley.
- Make sure that the throttle-plate-end of the cable is not binding against one of the breather hose clamps. The clamps on the hoses on the passenger side y connector at the MAS elbow have to be oriented within a limited window or the ball-joint end of the clamp will bind and not allow the plate to return to full idle position.
- Check the orientation of the intake versus the heads and the throttle body/MAS/MAS-elbow versus the intake. (I have had one report of someone being able to re-install/re-assemble these components with funky-weird orientations that cause problems.) All the components should be aligned at straight / right angles with respect to each other. The only exception is the MAS which will make an angle with the intake front to rear. (But not side to side - it should be straight.)

With the engine off you should be able to hear the micro-switch on the WOT/idle switch close when the throttle cable as returned to the idle position. If you hear the idle switch then the idle problem is either in another cable or a vacuum leak.


Ok. Just checking.

There is one other possibility: The hard fuel line that runs over the passenger side cam cover should be fastened to the engine assembly directly underneath the front of the passenger side fuel rail via a clamp onto a ~1" long bracket . This bracket is held fast because the front passenger-side coolant cross-over bolt goes through it. It is possible that this connection was disturbed during the intake R&R. I suggest locating this bolt and bracket and making sure that it is not the source of the coolant.


Good luck.

 

Garth and Dave,

I am more in debt to you both every day. Inspecting further, the leak seems to be at the top of the engine, and the nature of how the leaking coolant is dropping down makes it appear to be the water pump leaking. It looks like the main coolant delivery hose at the top of the engine isn't making a seal completely. When I first started the car up it was dripping, and I thought I secured it, but apparently just slowed the leak - now it is just running down the front of the engine and dripping off the water pump. The middle arrow shows where it appears to run down the front of the block, and you can see a nice little puddle underneath the hose in the little pocket there. So, I think that is my culprit, but need to let the engine cool down tonight, and I am out of town for the next 3 nights Oh well, I will let you know how it goes...

I will also tackle the throttle cable this weekend and hopefully take her for a spin (FINALLY!)

Thanks again so much for your help and patience!

Bill

 

"-High idle speed. When starting the car up, it idles around 1500 RPM, and doesn't really drop below 1,000 RPM when warming up. This is higher than the normal 750 idle RPM - did I do something wrong, or do I need to adjust the idle speed? On the plus side, the car does not seem to have the jumpy idle speed it did before the refresh."

IT's very possible that the last time the idle was adjusted you had vacuum leaks. Now that the leaks are fixed, the engine will naturally idle much higher.

Just try backing off the adj. to 750rpm.

 

On behalf of myself and Garth - you are welcome. As for me, you can repay 'your debt' in beer next time you're in Boston.

I hope your trip goes well.

But, on topic, if you follow your picture upwards to the cap bolt immediately above the hose clamp screw you'll see the very bolt and bracket I describe in my previous post. Also, you will note in your picture that the bracket is not screwed to the clamp on the hard fuel line.

I was recently very sincerely and sternly advised by Mr. Earl "$50 GT" Gilstrom, upon seeing the same condition as in your picture on CarChick's GTS that "fuel lines do not like to vibrate." Getting that fuel line attached to it's bracket is on my list of items on the GTS to tend to.

Good luck with the rest of Your Mission.

 

m21Sniper - Yo dUUUde, how 'bout a given name manj? - brings up another possible culprit. On your '87+ the idle controller is adaptive and if you had 'bad' idle 'items' such as say... dirty injectors, cracked breather hoses, or a vacuum leak that were corrected during your intake R&R the idle controller in the LH/EZK will have adapted to the previously non-optimal conditions. But, on the '87+'s there's no way for a 'user' to adjust the idle speed. Now that you've returned the system to factory spec (once you've double-checked the cables and hoses) the LH/EZK will require several hours to re-adapt to the as-new conditions. You can brain-wipe the ECUs of their stored parameters by disconnecting the battery - say for 30 minutes or so.

If you had the battery disconnected during the R&R procedure then the idle controller should not be driving your idle as for out-of-spec as you report if:
- your MAS and O2 sensor are reasonably in-spec and
- you have no vacuum leaks or cable issues.

 

"m21Sniper - Yo dUUUde, how 'bout a given name man?"

My Christian name is William, but i also answer to Bill.

 

Bill, Thank you.