VinnyC

I am new to the forum an have been considering a 928 purchase. I have been a "911 Guy" for many years and have been recently intrigued by the 928. The shark styling and classic 928 headlights have captured my attention. I have not seen one on the road in years. Recently at a NY PCA concours I saw a few 928's that really turned me on to it. I don't know much about them but I have been trying to read as much as possible. Rennlist is a great source of info.

I came across a 1988 928S4 w/ 63,000 miles and think it is priced fairly at $11,995.00. Since the book value on these cars is never the market value, I'm wondering if It is a good deal. I have not been able to obtain any service information, but I have been told that the car is original - meaning no belts changed or water pump, etc. The car looks clean.

My biggest concern is that I'm going to end up with a money pit. I've always had the impression that the 928 was difficult and expensive to work on. In addition, it's difficult to find a qualified mechanic or shop to do the work. These impressions may be totally wrong and thats why I need some help on this.
Is this a good deal?
Is the cost of ownership very high??
What should I look for???
Does anyone bring their 928 to the Porsche Dealer for repair anymore????

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

G Man

If you are going to be in Sarasota I would try to get ahold of "curt911".That is his rennlist name. He set up the purchase of the 84S that I bought there. He is a Porsche guy and can hook you up with a good porsche mechanic. Once you get the 928 bug there is no going back! Welcome to the clan.

rixter

17yrs old, never had the tb/wp done? hmmmm, not a good sign
if you check out the faqs, you will find LOTS of guidelines for buying a shark, a good ppi is essential

lorenolson888

Hi,

Sounds like a good deal if it is a 5 speed and not too bad for a Auto either.

But I agree it is unlikely that it is the original TB/WP or if it is then get it done right away and expect to see things like seized bolts... That sounds scary .. a wp bolt that is 17 years old and has never been removed probably is one with the block.

But those 87 and newer cars are pretty much the **** and if you found a good one then you will be happy.

I drove an 84 928 in 95 when I was in college. I could not really afford the insurance or upkeep so i did not get it but I knew I would get one eventually... ended up with an 86.0 resto proj that is brakinghe bank but it will probably be worth it in the end...

Yes they can be expensive to fix, find a good shop... most dealers are incompetent and expensive. If you get it and drive it you will probably never go back.... My car is a pioece of **** compared to someof my friends and I liove it.... I just completed a job on it and it is not running right.... so once it is fixed i will love it agina... I am mad at it right now

but they are cool cars.... lots of torque... lots of fun.... the sound and feel of the seats pressing into you is intoxicating. The first time i got my car ruinning good was such a rush ... very little compares.... but a 92 turbo ... that might... hehe


Look for warning lights on, bad leask at the cam covers cam plugs, T stat, oil pan ,ATF from steering gear, signs of accidedn,... do a carfax and get the PPI...

Nicole

While I don't want to comment on a particular car that I have not seen, I think you are doing the right thing by reading as much as you can. The first thing is always to get you educated, the seond is to drive at least a few to see how they feel, and what they should feel like. The third is to never, ever buy a 928 that has not been checked by a mechanic who is familiar with this particular type of Porsche. The 928 is totally, entirely different from the 911, and little knowledge is directly transferrable. The PO of my car knew that part, so he took my car to the Mercedes mechanics - who screwed up all kinds of things....

To educate yourself, this board is wonderful. There is also the rennlist email list, and a few enthusiast websites like the following:

http://www.nichols.nu/tips.htm
http://members.rennlist.com/v1uhoh
http://members.rennlist.com/pirtle/svc.html

Another great resources is the 928 Buyers Guide by David Hemmings, which you can find at www.hookedoncars.com under "Porsche 928".

The nice thing is that our community is tight knit, and ready to help each other out with information and sometimes even the repairs. The cameraderie is awesome, and I can't tell you how many great people I have met through the ownership of the three 928s I've had.

I wish you best of luck and hope to see you here regularly in the future!

cobalt

cobalt

Hey Vinny, thinking of a 928 huh.

I have been enjoying mine tremendously. Very different from the turbo. It is not a sports car like the turbo but it is one hell of a GT. I find I drive the GTS more than the turbo lately. The torque is great although the power is not as strong or sudden as the turbo at full boost. Very smooth acceleration and an easy driving very comfortable and forgiving car to drive. I must admit it is the only car I have sat in bad traffic in and not minded, even being a 5 speed. It also has great A/C compared to the 911's much more room and very comfortable.

I have yet to find a decent mechanic in the area. I have been doing my own work and find it to be on par with working on a 911. A lot of swearing and brused nuckles. But rewarding in the end.

There are some concerns on these cars that you don't have with the turbo and in turn the same with the turbo. Good maintenance records are a must. If it was a well maintained car these things run great. The mileage is good for these cars and if the primary service points have been recently cared for you should be set to go. I would budget the same you would for the turbo to be on the safe side.

I would give it a drive, I think you will find it a very pleasurable experiance and I find the GTS gets almost as much attention as the turbo.

Good Luck

BTW these guys are great, very helpfull and they really know their sharks.

bgrabner

Vinny - congratulations on seeing the light! J/k - all Porsches are great cars - your 911 looks fantastic. A 928 will definitely be a different experience for you, but very satisfying if you make the right purchase. Do you plan on doing your own wrenching or having a mechanic do your work? That is a fundamental question, because no matter how good of a specimen you pick up, these are older cars that are no longer made - regular maintenance and repairs need to be performed. It can get expensive if you have someone else do all the work. The good news is the 928 community is VERY supportive, and there are some strong 928 specific vendors who will also guide you in the right direction.

The car you mention sounds a bit cheap for a low mile S4 - I would hazard to guess the owner has some back maintenance piling up and is selling it to avoid the price tag. The first thing that has to be done is the timing belt/water pump. The 928 has an interference engine and the longest production timing belt ever made - not a problem if carefully monitored and replaced regularly (every 4 years or 40K-60K miles), but if it fails the price tag will be high. It will cost @$500 in parts to replace, or around $2K or more to have it done. Other items may be an issue (electrical and vaccuum issues are common in the 928) that can be time consuming and expensive to resolve, so that is why a pre-purchase inspection is essential. If you want to educate yourself first, try this link:

https://rennlist.com/main/areas/services/928_faq.htm

very invaluable prior to my first 928 purchase. If you can't get someone to do a PPI, you can at least do some initial inspection yourself...

Bottom line, if you love cars, you will love this car - I have 2 S4's now and I will have more - there is nothing else quite like it in my opinion Good luck in your search...

Bill

worf928

Welcome aboard.

That's not a bad place to start.

Before I write further, we need to know if the car in question is a 5-speed or auto. If the latter then you MUST have crank end-play checked before purchase unless you can verify beyond doubt that the torque tube is original. (Search this forum for TBF or Thrust Bearing Failure.)

Hmmm... "original" usually means unmodified from stock but rarely "no scheduled maintenance performed."

If, in fact, it is the latter then this car is going to need to catch up on 15+ years or more of scheduled maintenance and 15+ years of deterioration (rubber and plastic.) However, I'm going to break, slightly, from conventional wisdom - with all due respect to Rixter and others.

If, all other things equal, cars in good condition, well-running, etc., I was given the choice of

a) a 928 with a history of very little maintenance

b) a 928 with extensive maintenance history

c) a 928 with evidence of extensive maintenance but no history

then...

I would run away as fast as possible from C.
I would strongly consider A over B for the following reason:

The worst 928s are the ones that have had extensive ham-fisted maintenance. (See what Nicole wrote?) The best 928s seem to be those that have had the least ham-fisted maintenance. And the less it has been touched then the less it has been eff'd up. Thus, with two 928s each with accurate service histories, I'd tend to incline myself toward the one least-touched.

The choice between A and B would be made, by me, based upon just how abused by previous technicians the 928 has been. Or, from another perspective, does B come with a history and evidence of non-ham-fisted work. After-market electrical work - stereo, phone, alarm - are, in general, the origin of the worst kinds of abuse for a 928.

I have come to the above theory based upon my ownership experience with my three 928s. I have one 928 in each of the above categories. My '91 was purchased with 28k on the odo and with a very few exceptions I have done all the work. I consider it category A. There has been NO ham-fisted service, everything has been done according to factory procedures (or Rennlist wisdom) on or before schedule. It is has been very reliable and not even close to a money pit. You might find some things broken on it currently (AC freeze switch) but no one on this forum would be able to find anything on the car for which they would scream and cry "OMFG I cannot believe the technician did that!"

My '89 was a category C vehicle. It is a money (and time) pit.

The GTS is a category B vehicle. Lots of history. Some ham-fisted work in evidence. And lots of work for me to do.

Obvious Caveat: I'm not scared on first sight by a no-maintenance 928 because I can do the work.


It's an almost-20-year old car. It is going to be a money pit. How deep of a pit depends upon how much work you can do and if there is a REAL 928 mechanic in your area.

Assuming that there's nothing horribly wrong with the car, you need to be comfortable spending at least $5000 in addition to your purchase price. Less if you can do your own work. And that assumes that you do not get Mod Fever for 18" wheels etc. At a minimum you will need to replace every bit of rubber in the engine bay and the sensors that are uncovered when you access the rubber, and, and, and...

That impression is correct. But, ONLY because...

It is difficult to find a good shop because there are so few 928s.

It is expensive to work on because you can end up paying to have the same thing fixed two or more times because of the above. (Search for threads on AC work and alignments.)

And because most of the shops that claim to be qualified see so few 928s that they end up losing money and therefore cut corners when doing the work. It's the cut corners that lead to the eventual 'moneypitness' of some 928s.

There is SOME truth to these impressions. But, it is the basis of the truth that is important.

Maybe.

There's no doubt in my mind that a 1988 928 with a history of no maintenance will be expensive during the first year (or two) of ownership. However, it might be less expensive than spending money to fix all things broken by previous technicians.

A low mileage 2003 928. Unfortunately, you won't find one in this universe. ALL 928s are now at least 10 years old. MOST 928s are at least 15 years old. You are looking at a ~17-year old used car. However, unlike the bulk of 17-year old used cars, an '88 S4 is worth fixing.

The best 928s are those that are cared for by their current owners. For the ultimate example see:

http://members.rennlist.com/captearlg/91GT1.html

for the $50 928.


The most important thing is to have a pre-purchase inspection done by someone who REALLY knows 928s. If it's an auto then you must check for indications of TBF.

In closing: Am I knocking 928s? Do they suck? I own three. The keys will be pryed from my cold dead fingers (or in the case of the GTS - CarChick's cold dead fingers.)

Good luck.

Bill Ball

Dave C - Great reply.

SharkSkin

Wow Dave.... nothing to add after that!

Bill Coleman

If it's a 5 speed w/63k miles it's probably a good deal - depending on the PPI of course.

VinnyC

All of your coments are much appreciated - especially yours Dave C. This is a great forum, and the response has been much better than I had expected.

To answer some of your questions, The car is an automatic. It is located in CT. at a Honda Dealership. Apparently, the owner of the dealership, Mr. Courtney, had this as part of his "collection." Since I have been working with a used car salesmen about the car, It has been difficult to get any real answers to the service questions. Every question is answered by saying "I'll ask the owner, and get back to you." The car can be seen on their web site for those of you interested in seeing it. (courtneyhonda) The claim from the salesmen is that the owner is a car fanatic and "true" collector. The car has been part of his collection since 1997. If anyone knows anything about the car specifically, that would be helpful.

Here is the problem. The car is in Ct. and I am in NY. I don't know any shops or place to have someone look at it in Milford- or if the dealer would even let me. Does anyone know any techs in the area that would charge me to do a "on-site" inspection? The other side of this is that in reality this is only an 11K car, and I feel silly and stupid requesting these type of things. No one wants to waste $11K, and I should not feel stupid about protecting myself - but somehow I do.

cobalt

Vinny,

You might try Fairfield County Motorsports. in Fairfield CT 203-256-9291.

They are not 928 guys specifically but they are long time Porsche experts on most all models and I am sure they can give you a thorough evaluation of the car. With the right questions to ask supplied by Dave and others here you should be set to go.

Looks like a nice car. You are liking red after all I see.

Keep us informed.

docmirror

Yes, it's good deal if:Good condition overall, all maintenance history, passes PPI with TBF check.

Yes, the cost of ownership is fairly high if:Non-DIY ownership

It's an $11k car TODAY. Tomorrow, it could be a $20k car. Trust bearing failure, trans failure, Timing Belt failure all cost a pile of money to repair if you send it to a shop. It sounds like you don't do your own work, which is fine, but you will make some mechanic in FL very happy in the next few years.

Quick things to check or look for on the car:Is the front spoiler and belly pan on the car? Open the hood, does it stay open, or sag down? Turn on the engine, run the AC, and just let it sit for twenty minutes at idle, does it overheat? Try to open the trunk latch from the pull button down near the driver's seat. Does the hatch open? Did it stay up or sag? Turn on every light, lamp, wiper, run the seats, mirrors, horn, washer, etc. Did it all work? Look at the relationship of the top of the intake plenum to the cross bar. The top of the plenum should be HIGHER than the top of the cross bar, or is it level with or below the cross bar?

You may take your car to a Porsche dealer, but the general consensus here is that the dealer is the WORST place, by far, to have any work done on a 928. I have seen or heard; Incorrect WP put on, wrong tools used on a job(pipe wrench on pulley!), butt connector splices on wiring, necessary parts not installed, non-needed parts installed, mis-diagnosis, parts left off car(pan), over-torqued bolts, grimey fingerprints, wrong oil replaced, etc.

So, shop around. There's a blue S4 for sale in Dallas for $13k with same mileage by an individual. A few thou on initial purchuse could save many thou later. The one at the Honda store isn't going anywhere in a hurry.

I'm continually amazed at a "Porsche certified technician" not being able to fix these cars. Just because it's not a 911, or derivitave is no excuse. If I had a Cayenne under warrantee, I'd be scared spitless. Maybe take it to a VW shop.....Best of luck, you'll love the drive.

Doc 90GT in resto