bd0nalds0n

I dispute the $10k paintjob its-better-to-buy-a-pretty-one-and-fix-the-mechanical-stuff recommendation. I bought a pretty car, fairly new paint, the big headlights, stoneguards, nice stereo with custom built subwoofer box. The interior was in bad shape, so I had built in the price of replacing the interior, but was blindsided by the poor mechanical shape the car was in. I blame no one but myself, because I found the car I wanted, in the relatively rare color I wanted, and had planned on being out of pocket quite a bit for restoration.

Then I sheared a cam, and discovered a bunch of other lurking half-assed fixes that had accumulated over the years tha needed to be sorted at the time the engine was apart. You can get eaten alive by parts and labor if you incur any kind of reasonably catestrophic (catestrophic as defined by a fix that in percentage terms is quite high relative to the purchase price) failures--climate control, broken timing belt, sheared cam, failed water pump, transmission, or torque tube--these are very labor intensive fixes, and the parts are never cheap, which is why any car you buy is likely to need something in this category. If you aren't prepared to do much of this stuff yourself--and it's time consuming to learn--and no guarantee you won't make the problem worse as you're learning--it's going to be either frustrating, or expensive, and probably both. Plus, if you're relegated to nights and weekends to fix whatever breaks (or is already broken, and trust me, they all need something and probably several things), you'll spend a lot more time looking at the car than driving it, especially if you're the kind of guy that goes berserko any time something is a little off.

I'm now somewhere north of $40k into a car I paid $10k, and will be approaching the 2 year anniversary in September. However, the interior is nearly perfect, the climate control is finally perfect, I'm running somewhere around 8-9 pounds of boost in a motor that should last 200k miles, the engine has been entirely rebuilt, the radiator end tanks have been resealed, I've got new transmission lines, new fuel lines, all new belts/hoses, sending units, etc. The transmission has been pulled and resealed, the torque convertor was rebuilt to a higher stall speed, and the torque tube bearings have been replaced. There are very few old parts left to fail, and I should have several years of below-average expenses, and it's a lot more fun to drive--and rarer--than my wife's G35, which was ~$30k but will be more than $40k by the time she gets done making the payments.

While I can and have performed some of the maintenance and most of the modifications, I much prefer to spend time behind the wheel rather than under the hood. I pay to have most of the repairs done--I earn more per hour doing my job than the mechanics charge, so it doesn't really make economic sense for me to do anything to the car, but I still choose to, for certain things, because its fun to learn new things, plus you value the car--and understand it better-- the more effort you put into it. I chased down a lot of little electrical gremlins, fixed the rattley window guides, broken door stops, window seals, etc, which aren't hard to do but are time consuming. I don't think it's ever come back from the shop for less than $2k.

Still, it's been a wonderfully fun car to own, and whatever expenses I incur are much less than if I owned an F-car or a Lotus or some other limited-production exotic.

It will be $200 a month after you get most of the things taken care of, but I would have several thousand extra for the non-obvious things that have likely been neglected by the PO. If you could find one that has been religiously maintained by a zealot, you could probably pay double what the average asking price is, and still come out dollars ahead--but it's hard to resist the siren song of buying cheap and figuring that your labor is zero, so "hey, all I have to do is buy the parts".

Ron_H

I must admit there are truths in your statements. I also like to tinker, but find it hard to justify that activity anymore given my billing rate and the demands of my job. I also have put way more than expected into this ride mechanically, over the past 3 years, but no where close to $40k. And now the paint is starting to fail in places where the PO used a buffer and left burned almoat through the clear coat. Last week the estimate to repair the damage to the top and hatch was $1600 and to paint the whole car ( bare metal and using Glasurit) was $10,000. Ouch!! More than I could get after a Peterbilt ran into it accidently. But my pains have been over three years and some were to be expected: the car is 19 yrs old and things wear out. Last night I spent 12 hours tearing apart the center console to replace a part in the shifter mechanism that should have been replaced when I last had the car in the shop a couple of weeks ago. (If you want it done right.........etc). And I don't do this for a living or I'd starve to death. But now it is almost right, but I had to give up my sanity for a couple of days to get it that way. I have also rebuilt or replaced most of the car in the last 3 years and still have a gremlin to find.

If I had bought a newer lower mileage car I would have trouble justifying the interest and payments and so I gambled on the '86.5. In time, as you state, my "investment" may even out. It still burns no oil and all the leaks have been fixed. And it still gives performance beyond what many cars even promise. The next few years, if it lasts that long, will tell the tale.

Now I must learn how to paint the damn thing.

Bill Ball

Be very careful. If you can't afford $15-20K for an S4 then you are on thin financial ice to buy one of these cars. I don't believe you should buy a car that stretches you that thin. You should be able to get a nice 86.5 or 87 for $10-12K, but not an outstanding one. You would have to have the luck of the Irish to avoid $3-5K/year in repairs. These cars have a ton of big ticket wear items that go routinely between 60-100K miles, starting with the steering rack, motor mounts, oil pan gasket, AC compressor, evaporator, etc. You might get a car that has had all that done and a recent timing belt and water pump. Otherwise, you can plan on doing it all soon. Now, that being said, my 89 with 140K miles is still running on the original steering rack, AC compressor, etc., but I know I'm just super lucky. I did the motor mounts and pan gasket - an expensive job unless you do it yourself. I did buy the absolute best car I could find for a reasonable amount (original owner, perfect maintenance, garaged all the time) and have spent very little on repairs. However, I do nearly all my own work and put quite a bit of time into servicing and upgrading the car. I absolutely love the car and I don't want to discourage you too much, but with your budget you are going to have to be very careful and very lucky, like I have been.

911Dave

This paragraph nicely sums up why so many 928s get neglected and are frequent victims of substandard repairs.

Ron_H

Bill took some words out of my mouth. I was thinking about my last post and concluded one thing is for certain: no matter how diligent and careful and insightful you are, the bottom line with an older performance car is that you pays your money and you takes your chances. I paid $6500 for my 86.5 and have rebuilt or replaced many of the items he mentioned. The PO knew he was selling the car at just the point when much of that would need attention.
I also knew I would discover alot of the items that crop up along the way. I spent money on doing many of the items right, and sometimes not so right. Now I am about to drive this beast 7000 miles across this country with peace of mind that the AC is working beautifully, the transmission and other running gear and brakes are in good condition, and this is one great GT car meant for exactly what I plan to do. I'm hard pressed to think of other GT cars or wannabees that can compete with it after 8 hours on the road at speed. But I know on the trip more irritating or worrisome problems will come into view, like the fire I had two years ago in Florida that burned some wiring when a grommet in the firewall failed. Ouch and double ouch. I paid my money and I took my chances, and I lost that one. Maybe I'll win the next few ones and end up grinning. More grins than frowns = I win. To be trite about it, I recall the saying that it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

928autobahndreamer

Thanks everyone for sharing your 928 wisdom/experience. I got exactly the information I was looking for. I was starting to get a little euphoric about buying and needed a little sober reality injection.
Unfortunately, it looks like I am going to have to save a little longer than planned to get a really well maintained car. I want to be able to buy the car with cash on hand $15-20K and it looks like I'll need a cushion of $2-5K after purchase to fix the PO gremlins and the unexpected failures. I really wanted to buy sooner rather than later, but another 3 years won't see the dissappearence of the 928.
I'm OK with delayed gratification, I just want to do this right without heartache and disappointment. And who knows, maybe I'll get lucky and find just the right car for a good price and not have the huge cost to get it in good order.(Leftover money for a SC? ) I just don't want to count on that and then have insufficient funds to treat my new baby right. My 928 WILL have a good home. Thanks again for everyones help.
Steve