fabric

Alright, my mechanic won't recharge with r12, and has even advised I stick with that, rather than have him convert to r134. Although I appreciate his honesty, I actually get the impression he doesn't want to deal with. Not sure how I feel about that. Anyway, , I'm wondering if anybody in the Chicago area has dealt with this before, and has any experience with somebody who's done this work.


I've perused most of the threads relating to converting vs. not converting, seems to be one of those issues where people have agreed to disagree. I've also read Pirtle's page on this, but I still think I want to find someone who's more specialized to deal with AC's, as I think I might get better results.

Any answers to above meandering questions appreciated.

bwebb77

IMHO, from what I've read. Not counting all the stuff that was written in 2003 or before, if you change hoses, o-rings, comprssor and drier, shouldn't be any reason it wouldn't cool just as good or better. I have heard talk of the r134 not being made anymore as they are going to some other type of cooling.

Kevin in Atlanta

No need to change the compressor or hoses. I upgraded my '86.5 to 134a after replacing the drier, o-rings, both expansion valves. I cleaned out the compressor and condensor coil with brake clean and filled it with 134a. After properly adjusting the mixing flaps the car blew ice cubes.

Mark

I've heard of several wrenches that don't want to mess with AC. Too many "FEDERAL" issues with the required collection of R12. Most will refer you to a dedicated AC shop that can handle it.

R134 is so cheap...and readily available about anywhere. R12 is now made of cantaffordium! Someone told me - IF you can find it, it's $75-100 PER CAN!!!!!!!

ROG100

I'm still buying R12 for about $17-$20 a can on eBay. No Problems.
I'm paying about $12 a can for R134a. Not much difference.
Shame you are not near me as I have all the recycling gear (bought on eBay for $120) + a set of guages ($50).
Stay with R12 buy a set of guages and read the high and low pressure V temp details in the WSM.
If all you are looking to do is add freon it will cost you less than $100.
Let me know if you need more detailed info by PM.

Ketchmi

We still buy and use R12. In a side by side comparison, R134 doesn't cool as effectively while at idle or in slow moving traffic. (Which we have a lot of here in Utah!) The condensor isn't sized properly for use with R134. I rebuilt my personal system completely and charged it with R134. During my rebuild it's going to be flushed and refilled with R12. It's not cheap but well worth the money IMHO. BTW, we charge $50 a # for R12.

Even the dual air systems use less than 3#'s of R12, that $130 additional cost is negligible during our "construction season". Almost all of my male friends are of the large, hairy type and the last thing I want to do is sit in traffic in a car that won't cool with them. (I can always turn the A/C off when I have a woman with too many clothes on in the passenger seat........)

borland

The latent heat properties and working pressures, make R12 much more efficient than R134a. That's why it takes longer for a R134a system to come to equilibrium than it does for a R12 system.

If you switch to R134a, you might get the same cooling, but the compressor will have to work much harder to pump more refrigerant thru the system. Working harder means shorter compressor life and reduced gas milage. Higher working presssures result in added stress to the high pressure side of the system.

If you don't properly test and repair leaks, lost R12 can be expensive. The original R12 hoses are only good for 10 years or so before they start leaking at the fittings.

borland
90'S4

jyoon

last 944 turbo i had and my current 84 euro have been converted by the pos. both of them seemed to blow cold enough that i couldn't really tell much difference. the r12 may be more efficient but you may or may not be able to tell. if you go with the r134a, it's much easier to get it worked on, or work on it yourself as anyone can buy the refrigerant at the local auto store. yes you can buy the r12 on ebay, but you have to sign a statement or such stating you're licensed to use the product or are reselling it.

Bill Ball

R134 prices have gone through the roof. There's almost no cost advantage at the moment.

Koenig928

I converted my S4 to 134a five years ago. I ONLY components I replaced were the expansion valve and a new drier. Didn't bother draining the old oil either (yes I know I should have....) Its been running great ever since, only had to add one can once 2 years ago.

It's true R-12 is more efficient at cooling. But since I can buy R-134 at ~$5 per can, its a no brainer when you do the work yourself.

MikeN

Roger has this one right. Go get your 609 certificate (enables you to buy R12 and really teaches you a lot) out on the web for about $25 and a decent set of guages for another $50. If you want you can go a bit further by getting a used recycling machine, vacuum pump, etc. You can get a lb. of R12 off of Ebay for less than $20.......I always buy in the winter time and have gotten it for $10 a lb. sometimes.

You will have to pry my R12 away from my cold dead body before I will convert to R134. I have three new cars running R134 that can't even compare to a properly running R12 928 system.

IcemanG17

I recently had a leaky low pressure hose which leaked out all of my R12, after some debate I decided to stay with R12, since my compressor worked fine. Just replaced the hose, added a new drier and everything works great! With the increased price of R134 it would have only saved me about $100 total to use R134...but it would have cost me an extra $600 to convert it...plus R12 works better anyway....my old daily driver (1992) uses R12 and it works better than my wifes new (2002) car! It just seems to get colder!
Brian

928fan4life

you can always try this stuff.

http://www.delsupply.ca/

I have used it on all my VW cars and it blows nice and cold air.

Ketchmi

I'm sure it works good but it's nothing more than a mix of propane and butane. It makes a great coolant but it is just a bit more than flammable, ask Louie Ott.........

Sorry, I'll stick with R12.

fabric

Thanks for all the replies everybody. I'm going to stick with r12 rather than convert,, but I'm not quite ready to do this myself. I have a couple options for where to take it, so we'll see how that goes.