Hello.
I have a porsche 928 1979 5speed which doesn't start. It sits allready for a year. Now, I am very close to start it so I decided to change the coolant and the oil.

Yersterday I changed a coolant. I found a leak at the thing in which the thermostat sits(and 2 hoses from radiator and one smaller hose from expansion tank come). I suspect that this could happen becouse PO had too much water in the system and this winter it expanded and broke some hoses. When I drained the coolant, I didn't find any oil in it however I found some brownish bubles which look like some kind of grease. I drained radiator and two blocks. I got about 10 liters all together.

Today I was changing the oil. When I got the drain plug off, I got about 5 liters of water to come out first and then dirty oil came out.

So, now I am very scared becouse I know that this could be becouse of some serious problems. Please help, any advice will be much appretiated. I searched the Nichols Tips site and Rennlist posts and didn't find anything definite.

Is there any place where oil lines and coolant come close, so when coolant expanded it could get into the oil system?

Thanks allready, previously I got a great help here, I hope for the same now
Please, don't give up on me!!!

Klim

 

If the water froze in the hoses it also froze in the engine and radiator. With any luck the two mixed in the radiator, if you're unlucky the ice cracked the block.

 

Did it FREEZE? Or was there some other reason for the expansion. If you have the original radiator in the car maybe the water before it broke the hoses, it went through the side tank into the oil cooler side. Just a guess, I hope it's not what was in the previous post.

 

Thanks.
I would suppose it froze becouse we got about 0F this winter. And it didn't leak before the winter.

Is there any way to determine if it is radiator or engine block?

Thanks a lot,

Klim

 

Remove the radiator from the car and have it checked at a radiator repair shop. IF they find a leak between the side tank and the water passages you MAY be OK. If they don't you're in trouble. If they DO find a leak have the radiator repaired, follow the Porsche procedure for engine lubrication after the oil and water accidentally mix and see whether the block is OK.
By the way, The PO did NOT leave too much water in the cooling system. YOU did not check the antifreeze before you put the car away for the winter.

 

[QUOTE=mulik51]Thanks.
I would suppose it froze because we got about 0F this winter. And it didn't leak before the winter.

Is there any way to determine if it is radiator or engine block?

At this point, the safest thing to do is a pressure test on the coolant system. It will be difficult to get the air out, but easier if the thermostat pellet is removed.
A quick verification of the block can be done by stuffing a hose wrapped with a rag into one of the top hoses - and fill the block under some pressure. If water flows from the oil pan drain, we have a problem ..... Hopefully, that will not happen - so continue to close up the coolant system for a pressure test.
What drained out of the rad and sump? Green antifreeze - or 'clear' water? - the same for both?

 

To ErnestSw:
Thanks. I never knew that radiator cools oil too. Actually, just interested, can you tell me where the hoses with oil come to it?
BTW, I got car not starting. I looked in expansion tank and saw some brownish liquid. I bought anteefreeze and cleaner, but cleaner demanded carto work for 6 hours. So, I decided to start the car, and then change it, becouse I thought that brownish liquid is some Florida's antifreeze.

To Garth S:
Thanks a lot. I will do this tomorrow.
Should I remove all hoses from thermostat housing before doing the pressure test?
When I drained the radiator, I got brownish liguid. The same from two blocks. Then I "flushed" the system with water. Next day I changed the oil, and the water which came out was pretty clean. I can't really tell if it was the same as from the radiator but it looked cleaner, more like water with which I did a flush.

Thanks to all,

Klim

 

Hang in there Klim. With all the folks here, we should be able to sort this out ...
Ernest is correct in thinking that a perforated oil cooler in the rad may have allowed coolant into the oil sump - that is if your rad has an oil cooler. If there are two pressure hoses comming from above the oil filter to the left tank of the rad (drivers side), then you have it. My '80 5-sp does not. (gotta' watch these guys that drive fancy GTs that have all the do-dads ).
When you say " I got brownish liquid. The same from two blocks", I think you mean the two block drains? If so, it is good that you correctly drained the block. Further, you say "because I thought that brownish liquid is some Florida's antifreeze."
I know that they do some strange things in Florida ( Cameron, you there ), but selling brown antifreeze is not one of them. It sounds as if you had no freeze protection, and were left with rusty water.
Back to the first order of business - verify that the block is not cracked: what I suggested earlier was to get a hose to lightly pressure the system - so all other openings must be closed. If the block is cracked, water will either flow to the sump if cracked internally - or to the ground if an external wall is gone: I'm in the midst of a brain fade - are there freeze plugs on your block? Anyway, let us know what you find ....

 

Klim,
Please tell me you didn't start the car with water in the block!

 

To Garth S:
Thanks.
I checked the radiator, I don't have two pressure hoses coming from the engine. I see two nuts with rubber "buttons" on top and on the bottom of radiator on the left side. So, I suspect that I don't have an oil cooler. I will do the check you reccomended tomorrow but probably there is no need in that, I don't have an oil cooler...Probably I need to start looking for a new engine. Too bad, this one had just 15000 miles on it.
BTW, I have a small question. Should I just remove one hose from thermostat, or should I remove all hoses, and plug them with something leaving one free through which I will put the water?
And what are freeze plugs? Where are they located?

To ErnestSw:
No, I didn't start the engine with water instead of oil. The oil and coolant were dirty, so I thought that it is not nice for the car to start it with such a dirty liquids after such a long sitting. Yeah, it would not be such a good thing...

Thanks a lot, news didn't make me happy, but now I kind of know what to do further.

Klim

 

It is worth doing the pressure check to confirm the block: a normal pressure test is done by adding ~15psi air pressure to a filled cooling system - and looking for pressure loss & leaks. I've suggested the hose trick as you have some split hoses - and it's a quick way to look for gross block leaks. It will work best with the thermostat out, and all hoses/openings plugged but the one with the water hose. Worry about the rad and exp[ansion tank later: the block is the primary concern.

 

Hey!
I checked if the block leaks or not today. I removed all the tubes from the thermostat housing. Pluged two(the small one, and the one on the driver's side, in which thermostat sits). The one on the passenger's side, I left open and connected a hose with water to it( I checked if this hose could give 15psi. It does 20psi.) I turned the water on and looked if the water would come out from the oil drain plug opening, but it didn't. Any thoughts why is that?

Thanks,

Klim

 

Quote: " Any thoughts why is that?"
Actually, yes - that would be called good and encouraging news!
Now, reinstall all cooling/rad hoses as normal, refill with water - and do an ~15psi pressure test. Buy/borrow/make a riog with a bicycle pump to pressurize with air. This will confirm whether the cooling system is tight ( leak and crack free) on a cold engine. When you pass this test, I'd pull the spark plugs and assure the cylinders are dry. If so, squirt a teaspoon (5 ml) of oil in each cylinder, and leave the plugs out for now.
Add some cheap 10W-30 to the crankcase to flush through and drain ( you had water in there, right?): install the drain plug and dump in some more bargin oil - and carefully hand turn the engine - 27mm crank nut in the V-belt pulley turned clockwise facing the engine. Do so until it spins freely.
If you make it this far, then we move on to the timing belt checks, flushing the fuel rail/injectors/etc. prior to connecting the battery. That oil will do for a start attempt later - the real leak test comes with a warm, running engine.
Others may have a different approach.

 

THE 79 DOES NOT HAVE AN OIL COOLER.



Klim, if there was water in the oil you have problems my friend. THat is the end of the story. You need to find the source of the water. This (in your car) can only be in the following instances:

1) It rained into your engien bay a LOT and that rain washed in via your open oil filler cap/strainer or
2) Your coolant hoses cracked under pressure and when the ice melted it melted strategically into the crankcase via perhaps the oil tube that leads from filler down into the oil sump or
3) You have a cracked block or
4) You have a broken head gasket

All the best. I recommend you absolutely not start the car now. In any event, that much water will have rusted your crank bearings.
Heinrich

 

Btw ... a used engine for your car costs almost nothing