Jim bailey - 928 International

Jessa some people have difficulty programing their VCR as yet there is no plug and play aftermarket injection. With a carbureted car and simple distributor one hot wire is about all that you need to run the car.

hacker-pschorr

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most if not all of the motors you list have other modifications along with the individual throttle bodies?

mark kibort

Actually, its not much of a drawback, as i was able to take my 84 US 4.7 liter at 175hp at the rear wheels all the way to 293hp with only fuel regulator change. (after mods of headers, cams , TB , runners, and then the 5 liter bottom end). fuel regulation was near perfect. Not bad flexibility, and as far as restriction, yes, it has some of that due to its 2 x 1" opening, but comparible MAF systems on a 5 liter, even using higher compression and 4 valves (ie 85 928) only puts out slightly more hp. it is a great system. The carbs would probably give a lot more power, but i bet it would be a mess to keep running right!

Mk

Chris Lockhart

Bcdavis, you're right. The owner of this car posted here on the list a few times. He was flamed for the "kit" he was selling on Ebay that duplicated this set-up.

ViribusUnits

Jim, while the electornics are alought easyer on non-emission controled carborated cars, the mechenicals are much more difficult.

For a carborated car you've got to get the jetting, and the sizeing right. For EFI, if you get the fuel injectors in the right ball park, and just big enough, fuel pum and fuel lines and the MAF big enough and your basicly done with the mechencial part. No real high task calculations or anything.

With a multipul carb ets up you've got all the fuel sizeing conciderations, like jet size, ventury size, accelerator pump size, and the like. On top of that you get to also ballance the multipul throtal bodys, not exactly the easiest thing around eighter as it requires a dreaded "special tool." You've also got to deal with the issues of the automatic chokes. Emissin controled carbs are possibly the most complicated, dumb, peice of equipment ever put into a car.

So yea, you can put carbs on a car, and it's easy to wire up. But you've just opened up a whole new can of worms as to how to set up the carbs, it's far from plug and play!

It seems like you goys have forgotten all the issues with running carbs. Crappy automatic vacuum control chokes, **** poor running till the engine warmed up cause the warm up enrichment wasn't quite right, dirty float bowls, varnish on the jets, gummed up carb passageways, and vapor lock. God how I hate vapor lock. The what seemed like miles of vacuum lines, all constanly getting cloged, or cracked, or heaven forbid not hooked up right. Not to mention when you ran a single carb you had to to put the carb on the pendlum, and then keep the intake passages short to keep the fuel from falling out of the air, which killed your low end torque. And there was always the lovely ballanceing of mutipule carbs.

Used to be it wasn't uncommon to pull the carb and clean it out in maybe 50,000 miles. And before pointless distributers, I remember haveing to pull the distributer and check the points at 20,000 miles or so. You can forget about your average handy man being able to rebuild a carb, it's about like rebuilding a swiss watch, ain't gonna happen.

I'm only 22, but I've driven alought of old junk. I never ever want to go back to useing a carb on a daily driver. The things are just maintance pigs as far as I'm concirned.

As far as EFI being difficult to trouble shoot, it's not. You just need the right tools, and be comfertable with 12v electronics. Digital EFI normaly even comes with a self dignossing tool, which can be really helpful.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Yes most do as does the poor old abused 1984 in question. The fact is camshafts and intakes are by necessity a compromise what works well at low RPM does not work well at high RPM .The resonance flap S-4 helps with the intake making two peaks not one .Vario cam technology can compensate some for the limitations of the camshafts. Tom C with headers on the S-4 is seeing some nice increases with his dual throttle bodies mounted to the side plates of the S-4 intake. The S-4 intake is very good at what it was designed for which is not to say there are not better designs to increase top end high RPM horsepower but it will be at the expense of low end torque there goes the old compromise again.

Flint

I'm still not seeing an answer to why the ride height looks so janked up. And the offset as well. Those tires look like they'd be taking the paint of the edge of the wheel wells on the first unseen pothole.

dr bob

If anybody feels the urge to go this route I have a very large collection of Weber IDA parts. Jets, chokes, emulsion tubes, pump cams, etc. Just what a person needs, along with a gas analyzer and a bunch of pre-paid dyno time.

As wonderful as folks remember carbs, they don't hold a candle to a good injection system. A lot of the 'power' we remember is relative, from that narrow band where a few things start to happen right at the same time. It feels great compared to most of the rest of the time when it ran poorly. Carbs respond the wrong way to changes in air density, so mountain driving becomes an adventure in rich mixtures and such. Consider that carbs came on cars that were sold or traded before a magic 50k mileage figure. By 75k, carbureted cars have a history of needing some attention. Not so the FI cars.


My memory drifts back to a 2.4 liter six cylinder car that had three 44IDA's on it. A challenge to get it set up, and a lot of work to get it all running right. Want to adjust the tip-in mixture? Just remove six jet stacks and replace the third part there from the top... six times.


IMHO, reliable EFI is much better and easier for street use.

hacker-pschorr

Earlier thread on this motor:

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/106049-carbureted-928-a.html

Reece

The first time I experienced idle problems on my 88 S4, I naturally grabbed my screwdriver and CO adjustment tool and stood there for a moment looking for the adjustments. A car without mixture,idle or timing control by the owner mechanic. Throw in an automatic trans and Webers start to make sense. They are dead relaible on my 67 911. And I'll tell ya, I'd love to hear a full throttle run with the Webers wide open and letting the 928 engine talk. Dang. Then I'd personally add solid lifters. 32 of them. Remember what solids sounded like? More power to the guy. Ain't afraid of being different!

MarkRobinson

(Talk real slow, while chewing gum, with a heavy redneck accent):
Well Y'all miss'd the point completely: see, ain't no better way to make Powr than to add afew Holleys or such, but gotta keep with them germans, so we went with the Webers....Now, Webers dont make powr like them Holleys....but anything's better on a Porsch (spoken as it's spelled) than that them there damn Fe-yule injection...

Reece

Mark- reminds me of Gene Day, the owner of the local Arco station years ago and, God bless him, he let us kids use his lift, tools and even sneak a beer in the back room at the end of the day, and upon seeing my new '73 BMW 2002Tii exclaimed in his Oklahoma accent, " I see what's wrong with your car. It ain't got a carburator and the tires are flat."

Oh, and Webers are Eyetalyan.