New and Improved Oil Control for 16V cars
#1
Developer
Thread Starter
New and Improved Oil Control for 16V cars
I am ready to announce our new and improved 16v oil control system for the 928, having now succesfully installed and tested in on L-Jet Supercharged cars and K-Jet supercharged cars.
You may be aware of the Devek idea for a baffle plate beneath the oil breather housing, and you may have been also seen the oil-return-drop concept on a number of cars - we have been manufacturing and selling those as kits for a while. Both of these ideas are good, and have some positive effect.
But we needed more. I have stroker guys who call with oil mist in their crankcase vapor, supercharger guys too, and sometimes just guys who like to shift at redline a lot.
What we have done (see pictures below) is re-engineer the factory oil separator to implament a 3-chamber design to do a better job of condesning the oil vapor out of the crankcase venting and return it to the oil pan. Those of you that are pilots of small aircraft may recognise a similarity to the popular M20 air/oil separator found there, and that analogy is a good one.
So, we are now providing all 3 techniques in a single kit with comprehensive instructions.
Price now is $145 where it was $85 due to the added parts and machining. Any of our customers with the original system, from us are welcomed to upgrade to this new version for just the difference in price.
There are 6 pictures about it and a more detailed description here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMESE%3AIT
Your questions are welcome.
You may be aware of the Devek idea for a baffle plate beneath the oil breather housing, and you may have been also seen the oil-return-drop concept on a number of cars - we have been manufacturing and selling those as kits for a while. Both of these ideas are good, and have some positive effect.
But we needed more. I have stroker guys who call with oil mist in their crankcase vapor, supercharger guys too, and sometimes just guys who like to shift at redline a lot.
What we have done (see pictures below) is re-engineer the factory oil separator to implament a 3-chamber design to do a better job of condesning the oil vapor out of the crankcase venting and return it to the oil pan. Those of you that are pilots of small aircraft may recognise a similarity to the popular M20 air/oil separator found there, and that analogy is a good one.
So, we are now providing all 3 techniques in a single kit with comprehensive instructions.
Price now is $145 where it was $85 due to the added parts and machining. Any of our customers with the original system, from us are welcomed to upgrade to this new version for just the difference in price.
There are 6 pictures about it and a more detailed description here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMESE%3AIT
Your questions are welcome.
#2
Under the Lift
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Carl:
Nice work! Love the cut-open view. Very instructive. I must compliment you on the thoroughness and quality of your photo-documentation (as well as the product), as seen in your SC kit manuals and again here. You set a high standard.
Nice work! Love the cut-open view. Very instructive. I must compliment you on the thoroughness and quality of your photo-documentation (as well as the product), as seen in your SC kit manuals and again here. You set a high standard.
#3
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The one i made for my car is very similar and is based on a seperator used on reciprocating aircraft engines. It works very well as im sure youve found out also Carl!
Air/oil mixture comes in...is forced to make a few 90' turns and eventually the oil drops out of suspension and to the bottom where it can go to a catch can..engine..or the ground
This link was the seed for my application. I wasnt about to pay FAA/PMA prices!!
http://www.m-20turbos.com/breather.htm
Air/oil mixture comes in...is forced to make a few 90' turns and eventually the oil drops out of suspension and to the bottom where it can go to a catch can..engine..or the ground
This link was the seed for my application. I wasnt about to pay FAA/PMA prices!!
http://www.m-20turbos.com/breather.htm
#4
Developer
Thread Starter
Thanks Bill. We do try to be comprehensive. You know, I ran that post thru the spellchecker before I submitted it - but you sure cannot tell. Sorry for all the spelling errors.
Tony - I was looking at the M20 air/oil separator for the 6 cyl Cessna Lycoming when I came into this idea. The task was to get it down to where it fits completely within the Porsche oil separator canister so it looks stock. Yours is huge! Where does it go?
Tony - I was looking at the M20 air/oil separator for the 6 cyl Cessna Lycoming when I came into this idea. The task was to get it down to where it fits completely within the Porsche oil separator canister so it looks stock. Yours is huge! Where does it go?
#5
Rennlist Member
Carl, can you help me out a little here.... I don't see how the air/oilmist gets past the outer cylinder, except via the drain groove at the right side of the cutaway pic. Are there holes or slots in this piece that are not shown?
#6
Developer
Thread Starter
Sharkskin - the outer tube is sized to fit exactly between the top when screwed down and the bottom of the oil separator. However, take off your oil fill cap and remove the basket and you'll see that the bottom FALLS AWAY on one side.
We take advantage of that topography - the oil/air mist must travel around the outer perimeter and down under the outer rim on that side. The air will make a 180 degree turn to come up the inner tube, but the oil is too heavy and inertia will keep it going straight down and back into the motor.
It works really well.
We take advantage of that topography - the oil/air mist must travel around the outer perimeter and down under the outer rim on that side. The air will make a 180 degree turn to come up the inner tube, but the oil is too heavy and inertia will keep it going straight down and back into the motor.
It works really well.
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#8
Developer
Thread Starter
Thanks, Rez. There are so many talanted 928 owners - each with skills to bring to bear on any particular problem we might have - I do not imagine there isn't much we cant do when we share knowledge in a forum such as this.
#9
Rennlist Member
Thanks Carl, that looks awesome. What do you do with the water line that runs through the factory breather? Does it integrate with your setup, or does it get capped or re-routed?
#11
Drifting
Looks superb, its always great to see development work, especially when consideration is given to stock appearance.
Please can you say whether the S4 suffers more or less in this regard, especially the early models with the oil jet piston coolers. Are you considering designing something for 32V cars?
Please can you say whether the S4 suffers more or less in this regard, especially the early models with the oil jet piston coolers. Are you considering designing something for 32V cars?
#12
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Originally Posted by SharkSkin
What do you do with the water line that runs through the factory breather? Does it integrate with your setup, or does it get capped or re-routed?
#13
Developer
Thread Starter
The water line is designed to keep the oil vapor from congeling in the breather hose to the air filter so it does not turn to sludge and stop moving.
Our kit provides a metal hose splice, you simply remove the water line from each end of that breather hose and connect them to each other with the splice provided.
Here are 2 of the pics from our installation instructions:
Our kit provides a metal hose splice, you simply remove the water line from each end of that breather hose and connect them to each other with the splice provided.
Here are 2 of the pics from our installation instructions:
#15
Developer
Thread Starter
UKKid35 - The 32v cars also have issues with pressurizing the crankcase when they are stroked or supercharged. Ask Tony and Tim. They each have worked on ventilating the crankcase in different ways.
IMHO, it seems like it is less of a problem than the 16v cars, but it's still a problem.
Consider there are two methods: CVA (crankcase ventilation to atmosphere) and PCV (positive crankcase ventilation). If your upper engine is nice and tight, a CVA system might be enough. CVA systems achieve atmospheric pressure at rest, and about .5 bar at throttle if designed correctly.
The racers like a PCV system, because they learned in the 1950's that if they pulled a vacuum in the crankcase, the piston rings sealed better and they gained HP at the crank.
PCV systems inlcude intake-vacuum-drawdown and well as belt-driven vacuum pumps. It's when you are evacuating the crankcase with intake vacuum that it becomes so impoirtant to remove the oil vapor from the air before it gets into the intake manifold - oil in the intake air lowers the octane rating a lot and contributes to detonation.
That is why we concentrate so much on improving the oil separator.
IMHO, it seems like it is less of a problem than the 16v cars, but it's still a problem.
Consider there are two methods: CVA (crankcase ventilation to atmosphere) and PCV (positive crankcase ventilation). If your upper engine is nice and tight, a CVA system might be enough. CVA systems achieve atmospheric pressure at rest, and about .5 bar at throttle if designed correctly.
The racers like a PCV system, because they learned in the 1950's that if they pulled a vacuum in the crankcase, the piston rings sealed better and they gained HP at the crank.
PCV systems inlcude intake-vacuum-drawdown and well as belt-driven vacuum pumps. It's when you are evacuating the crankcase with intake vacuum that it becomes so impoirtant to remove the oil vapor from the air before it gets into the intake manifold - oil in the intake air lowers the octane rating a lot and contributes to detonation.
That is why we concentrate so much on improving the oil separator.