sublimate

I'm trying to get my project '82 to turn over for the first time in 3 years. When I turn the key to "on" the dash lights up (see 1st pic below). When I try to start it I hear a click or two from the relay panel and most, but not all, of the lights go out (see 2nd pic) and it doesn't turn over. I have Wally's excellent "Starter Solenoid Diagnosis" and I'll go through it tomorrow, but I'm thinking it must be something going on elsewhere. Does this sound like a ground problem?

Looking at the relay panel (3rd pic), I expected there to be jumper wires everywhere, onsidering all the huge amps the PO had hooked up. But the only jumpers are at relay XVI (pic 4) which according to my WSM (pic 5) is the Fuel Injector relay. The contacts on the front of the relay panel are numbered 1, 2, 3... but the numbers on the diagram are 30, 85, 85, and 87. How do I match them up? Do I have to look at the back of the panel?

When i picked up the car, the PO warned me that his mechanic tried for months, but couldn't get the the car to work without the jumpers (he said fuel pump, but I guess he was mistaken). Any idea what the problem could be? Is this common?

Thanks.

SharkSkin

The relay itself should have the 2-digit numbers on it. Are you sure your battery is good? Try swapping in a known good one or get that one load tested.

sublimate

The battery is brand new - shows 12.6 volts.
Unfortunately I don't have the relay, just the wires.

SharkSkin

OK, I'm looking at the full diagram. Also at a copy of the DIN standard. (There is a decent excerpt here.) I attached enough of the diagram so you can see my reasoning.

Pin 30 is direct from the battery. Pin 87 connects directly to connector W4 on the harness(Connector W, pin 4). I would expect this to be pins 3 and 5 on your relay socket. You should be able to determine which is which with a DMM. First find out which is pin 30 using the volts setting. Then disconnect the battery and verify continuity to pin W4 from whichever of pins 3 or 5 did not show +12V on the previous test.

Pins 85 & 86, being the coil for the relay(or activation signal) will almost always be pins 2 and 7 on the relay socket. Pin 85 goes to ground(15) and pin 86 goes to +12V with ignition switch "on"(31). You can also verify which is which of these with your DMM.

HTH

sublimate

Thanks Dave. That DIN standard link is helpful.

3 of the FI relay contacts are all jumpered together - and obviously none of these can be the ground (15). If he was just bypassing the relay then it seems he would have just jumpered from the battery (30) to the Injectors. But since he also jumpered from the battery to the switched supply (31), maybe there's a problem with 31. Time to pull out the DMM.

DR

Victor,
Is your 82 an Auto or 5-speed?

sublimate

Sorry, sould have put that in the first post. It's a 5-speed. Does that make a difference?

SharkSkin

Actually I would expect pin 3 on the socket to be connected to 30. Not sure what pin 4 is. Generally a relay would have pin 3 connected to pin 4 then pin 3 would switch to pin 5 when energized. Put another way, pin 3 would be the common, switched between 4 and 5. Should be interesting....

Jim bailey - 928 International

The relay just to the left of the jumper wires is a BIG ???? that should be a jumper on a 5 speed 82 car BUT a relay "starter relay -at" for an auto trans car and it would need a signal from the neutral safety switch on the transmission telling it it was in park or neutral before it would allow the starter to engage. You appear to have several relays removed from the board and it is quite possible that someone has "moved relays around" ....... Was the car an automatic at one time ??

DR

>Sorry, sould have put that in the first post. It's a 5-speed. Does that make a difference?

Yep, you have an Auto relay in the starter relay posiiton XIV, should be a bridge there.

Part # 928.612.473.00 $4.87

sublimate

Jeez, I hope not. It has an '82 tranny and you'd think if someone converted it they'd have the decency to at least put in a BW syncro model. If it was converted they did a very clean job. Would there be any tell-tale signs?

Oh wait, the engine also has the correct code for a 5-speed, so unless they went through a lot of work I doubt it was an auto.

Maye the mechanic just stuck the FI relay over in the auto spot as a place keeper? You say there should be a jumper over there? And I have other relays missing?

DR

>Maye the mechanic just stuck the FI relay over in the auto spot as a place keeper?

If your 82 has Intensive Washers then I suspect that is probably the Intensive Washer relay stuck in the starter position since it is missing from position XV.

Check the part number on the relay, if it is 928.618.113.01 that is the case, if it is 928.615.119.00
then it could be the mssing Fuel Injection relay.

DR

Victor,

BTW, go check out the Fuse/Relay Charts I have on our website www.928gt.com , the positions and part numbers are all layed out for you and will help you solve confusion. Some may not match exactly as some relays have superseded, but it will get you very close.

sublimate

Thanks guys. DR, that relay/fuse chart is really helpful. I checked the car out over lunch - unfortunately I think that (extra?) relay in the A/T spot is a generic (see below), although the schematic and pinout numbers do match the FI schematic. I guess I should have figured there would be plenty of wiring irregularities, considering there's an aftermarket alarm and another controller which unlocks the doors and lowers the windows by remote control (see 2nd pic). I'm sure it's going to be a nightmare if I have to get into all that. Maybe the alarm uses that relay to disable the starter???

What I really want to do is run the starter so I can check compression (I've already turned it over by hand) so I can decide whether it's worth saving before I order a bunch of parts from you guys (TB, WP, filters, etc) and really dive into it. Maybe I can just bridge across the starter solenoid to crank it? Wally's post on Starter Solenoid Diagnosis says there's only three wires going to the solenoid, but I have a 4th, a black/yellow one running over to the ignition system. I think I can just ignore this and jump from the battery input to the yellow start wire to crank it. Is that right?