Anyone running an E-ram on their shark?
02-03-2005, 05:38 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
One of the main things that come to mind, is that with 800watts, the eRAM is making a 1psi net change in intake pressure (or 6%) since this is well within the fuel management abilities (ie 0-7000feet altitude, 0-120degree temp, etc)
the system adds the additional fuel and gives the gains. The most telling test we did was the airbox vacuum test, where by running 110mph at near redline, we measured .5"Hg vacuum. with the eRam , this vacuum went to a slightly positive pressure of about .5psi. (1psi net approx.) the dyno confirmed this as well.
simple stuff , really, and seems to be inline with most all other mod costs i made at the time. (ie headers, exhaust, cams, fuel regs, filterchanges, air box, intake runners, Throttle body, heads, valves , compression, etc, etc)
the boat vet fans are a crack up. these are 50 watt devices, claiming 40hp. they dont draw enough current to even require a fuse! We have removed 1000s of these ads from ebay, but we can hardly keep up the clean up.
Mk
the system adds the additional fuel and gives the gains. The most telling test we did was the airbox vacuum test, where by running 110mph at near redline, we measured .5"Hg vacuum. with the eRam , this vacuum went to a slightly positive pressure of about .5psi. (1psi net approx.) the dyno confirmed this as well.
simple stuff , really, and seems to be inline with most all other mod costs i made at the time. (ie headers, exhaust, cams, fuel regs, filterchanges, air box, intake runners, Throttle body, heads, valves , compression, etc, etc)
the boat vet fans are a crack up. these are 50 watt devices, claiming 40hp. they dont draw enough current to even require a fuse! We have removed 1000s of these ads from ebay, but we can hardly keep up the clean up.
Mk
Originally Posted by sublimate
I think most people's skepticism comes from a few things:
1. There are a lot of completely bogus "electric superchargers" being peddled on ebay to ricer wannabes. These are usually boat bilge fans painted to look racey and advertised as adding 100s of horsepower, when in reality they just restrict your intake and reduce power.
2. Some simple calculations will show you that to get large gains in power (100+ hp) that people normally associate with forced induction (super or turbo) would require much more electricity than is possible in a 12v system. Now when 48 volt system come it might be more reasonable, but there will always be a loss of efficiency in comverting from mechanical to electrical and back to mechanical.
But it is certainly reasonable that a system such as the E-ram could add 10-20hp. Getting more air (as long as there's more fuel to go with it) is always a good thing.
1. There are a lot of completely bogus "electric superchargers" being peddled on ebay to ricer wannabes. These are usually boat bilge fans painted to look racey and advertised as adding 100s of horsepower, when in reality they just restrict your intake and reduce power.
2. Some simple calculations will show you that to get large gains in power (100+ hp) that people normally associate with forced induction (super or turbo) would require much more electricity than is possible in a 12v system. Now when 48 volt system come it might be more reasonable, but there will always be a loss of efficiency in comverting from mechanical to electrical and back to mechanical.
But it is certainly reasonable that a system such as the E-ram could add 10-20hp. Getting more air (as long as there's more fuel to go with it) is always a good thing.
02-03-2005, 05:39 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
Yeah, I'm cynical. It's true.
I know nothing about this company & am not trying to bash them! It's deceptive wording in advertising that pisses me off. Some people/companies make statements like this intentionally. If it's not intentional, it's bad wording. If it were my company, I would can whoever put that guarantee on my website.
I doubt I'm the only person out there who thinks like this.
Anyway, I'll shut up and step off the soapbox now.
I know nothing about this company & am not trying to bash them! It's deceptive wording in advertising that pisses me off. Some people/companies make statements like this intentionally. If it's not intentional, it's bad wording. If it were my company, I would can whoever put that guarantee on my website.
I doubt I'm the only person out there who thinks like this.
Anyway, I'll shut up and step off the soapbox now.
02-03-2005, 05:46 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
I understand. I just read the site again and it still looks pretty straight forward and non-misleading. 5% gains, guaranteed, etc...... the first line says "up to 15hp" but what can you say, when it wouldnt be reasonable to see 15hp on a 50hp Kia, now would it? so, there is a range, and you have to read the guarantee to see what the rules are. ALSO, there is also a refund of up to 50% of the dyno fee too!!! (up to 50 dollars, thats not "doll hairs " Kary)
anyway, for this list, we would pay for the entire dyno fee and offer discounts as well.( probably 10% off or something)
anyone with a pre 87 928 should consider it. (ie anyone under 250 rear wheel hp) Its possible the new versions will push this up over 300hp, but we havent tested the eRAMs on a 300rear wheel hp 928 in a couple of years now.
MK
anyway, for this list, we would pay for the entire dyno fee and offer discounts as well.( probably 10% off or something)
anyone with a pre 87 928 should consider it. (ie anyone under 250 rear wheel hp) Its possible the new versions will push this up over 300hp, but we havent tested the eRAMs on a 300rear wheel hp 928 in a couple of years now.
MK
Originally Posted by kary4th
Yeah, I'm cynical. It's true.
I know nothing about this company & am not trying to bash them! It's deceptive wording in advertising that pisses me off. Some people/companies make statements like this intentionally. If it's not intentional, it's bad wording. If it were my company, I would can whoever put that guarantee on my website.
I doubt I'm the only person out there who thinks like this.
Anyway, I'll shut up and step off the soapbox now.
I know nothing about this company & am not trying to bash them! It's deceptive wording in advertising that pisses me off. Some people/companies make statements like this intentionally. If it's not intentional, it's bad wording. If it were my company, I would can whoever put that guarantee on my website.
I doubt I'm the only person out there who thinks like this.
Anyway, I'll shut up and step off the soapbox now.
02-03-2005, 05:51 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Mark, your pretty generous, as your promise is pretty damn clear:
If the dyno shows the e-RAM does not increase horsepower in your engine by an average of at least 4% of its previous horsepower throughout the 3000 to 6000 rpm range, and we conclude from the picture that you have installed the unit correctly, we will give you a full refund* (quoted from their website's "Performance Guarantee" section)
Perhaps Mark, you could solicit some feedback from your customers with regards to noise level in road cars. Your racing car is loud, so you're experience there is not quite applicable to me!
If the dyno shows the e-RAM does not increase horsepower in your engine by an average of at least 4% of its previous horsepower throughout the 3000 to 6000 rpm range, and we conclude from the picture that you have installed the unit correctly, we will give you a full refund* (quoted from their website's "Performance Guarantee" section)
Perhaps Mark, you could solicit some feedback from your customers with regards to noise level in road cars. Your racing car is loud, so you're experience there is not quite applicable to me!
02-03-2005, 05:51 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
These represent a huge power draw. What are they, 50 amps each? So two would be 100 amps. Consider that's about 12x the power draw of both stock headlights(assuming 55W). Now consider trying to scoot down the freeway with these things on, high beams, fog lights, rear window defroster, seat heaters, defrost blower & AC... That's a lot of juice and doesn't sound sustainable. IMHO modifications that are not up to the car's design intent of being able to run for hours and hours at top speed are not worth doing.
02-03-2005, 05:51 PM
#22
Race Car
Commonplace deceptive wording that you refer to is somewhat reflective of the state of society today.
Even good companies have to overly-legalesedly protect themselves from others that will take advantage.
It is right of you to be generally skeptical - it will protect you in the long run for getting swindled. Certainly cannot fault you for that!
Even good companies have to overly-legalesedly protect themselves from others that will take advantage.
It is right of you to be generally skeptical - it will protect you in the long run for getting swindled. Certainly cannot fault you for that!
02-03-2005, 05:56 PM
#23
Race Car
Dave,
You are right it is not sustainable. But the device only comes on at WOT. There is no continuous power draw like the accessories you mention.
On my 15 minute journey to work, I am only at WOT for a cumulative total of maybe 20 seconds. And that would be on a highly spirited day.
You are right it is not sustainable. But the device only comes on at WOT. There is no continuous power draw like the accessories you mention.
On my 15 minute journey to work, I am only at WOT for a cumulative total of maybe 20 seconds. And that would be on a highly spirited day.
02-03-2005, 05:56 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by chaadster
Kary,
Your green interior is completely sweet, your mental athletics, however, are not. Any "critical thinker" should be able to comprehend their well articulated and reasonable guarantee policy:
Return Policy for performance guarantee:
All refund returns for the performance guarantee must conform to the following guidelines in order for a full refund to be honored: The e-RAM must be in "AS NEW" condition (in original packaging, and including all documentation). No modifications of any kind may be made to the e-RAM, its adapters, or any aspect of its wiring configuration. Any modifications to any part of the e-RAM or its components prior to its return to e-Racing Motorsports, LLC gives e-Racing Motorsports, LLC the right to charge a re-stocking fee based upon the cost of refurbishing the returned e-RAM to "AS NEW" condition. The e-RAM must be returned within the 30 Day time period from date of shipment from e-Racing Motorsports, LLC.
Warrantee information:
Only the highest quality components are used in the making of the e-RAM. This is why e-Racing Motorsports, LLC warrantees against all defects in workmanship or component failure under normal (recommended) use for a period of 1 year from the date of purchase. This warrantee includes all parts and labor used in the repair or, if necessary, replacement of the e-RAM (whichever is necessary to make the e-RAM perform to specifications). * Repairs and replacements for returned e-RAMs that do not fall under warrantee coverage will require charges for parts and labor to be covered by the customer. A list of repairs, and associated costs is included with every e-RAM order shipment. *Shipping not included
That is directly from their website, and contradicts EVERYTHING you claimed. What's up with that, man?!
Kary, like others, I suspect, just hate the E-ram for being the E-ram, it would seem!
Does anyone care to comment on the sound of the thing?
Your green interior is completely sweet, your mental athletics, however, are not. Any "critical thinker" should be able to comprehend their well articulated and reasonable guarantee policy:
Return Policy for performance guarantee:
All refund returns for the performance guarantee must conform to the following guidelines in order for a full refund to be honored: The e-RAM must be in "AS NEW" condition (in original packaging, and including all documentation). No modifications of any kind may be made to the e-RAM, its adapters, or any aspect of its wiring configuration. Any modifications to any part of the e-RAM or its components prior to its return to e-Racing Motorsports, LLC gives e-Racing Motorsports, LLC the right to charge a re-stocking fee based upon the cost of refurbishing the returned e-RAM to "AS NEW" condition. The e-RAM must be returned within the 30 Day time period from date of shipment from e-Racing Motorsports, LLC.
Warrantee information:
Only the highest quality components are used in the making of the e-RAM. This is why e-Racing Motorsports, LLC warrantees against all defects in workmanship or component failure under normal (recommended) use for a period of 1 year from the date of purchase. This warrantee includes all parts and labor used in the repair or, if necessary, replacement of the e-RAM (whichever is necessary to make the e-RAM perform to specifications). * Repairs and replacements for returned e-RAMs that do not fall under warrantee coverage will require charges for parts and labor to be covered by the customer. A list of repairs, and associated costs is included with every e-RAM order shipment. *Shipping not included
That is directly from their website, and contradicts EVERYTHING you claimed. What's up with that, man?!
Kary, like others, I suspect, just hate the E-ram for being the E-ram, it would seem!
Does anyone care to comment on the sound of the thing?
Geez, I really didn't mean to offend!
Like I said in my original post, I simply didn't see any detailed info on the guarantee.
I don't hate e-Ram for being e-Ram, on the contrary, I went and found their website because of this discussion. The basic idea seems absolutely sound & I was interested to learn more.
It's only when I saw the first "guarantee" catch phrase I commented on that I was put off. So put off that I didn't even notice the second line about 5% gain.
Sorry to have spouted off, guys. Please forgive me!
02-03-2005, 05:57 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
not the older versions , but maybe soon with the newer version after we do some dyno testing. we saw a limit around 250 rear wheel hp to see the gains.
we are using them for NASCAR style brake cooling. NASCAR is using the eRAMS for some proprietary down force enhancement applications too.
Mk
we are using them for NASCAR style brake cooling. NASCAR is using the eRAMS for some proprietary down force enhancement applications too.
Mk
Originally Posted by Pierre Martins
Mark K, do you run eRAMs in your race car?
02-03-2005, 06:03 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
yes, it is big, but for the application, its kind of small. 100amps for 7 second bursts for over an hour racing, didnt seem to hurt anything (and over several seasons of racing too) generally, a lap at laguna, you are only on full throttle for about 50 seconds for a 1:40-50 lap. No, its not a great application for someone in a camper pulling a trailer, trying to climb full throttle from sacramento to Lake Tahoe!!! but for drag racing, autox , road racing and even speed runs, its a good application.
remember, your starter runs about 300amps sometimes! as long as you put the amps back in, the charging system or small battery doesnt really have an issue with it. however, like you said, on the hyway, with stereo blasting, high beams on, interior lights running , along with electric cooling fans, and AC, yes, your lights will dim under full throttle when the eRAMs come on.
mk
remember, your starter runs about 300amps sometimes! as long as you put the amps back in, the charging system or small battery doesnt really have an issue with it. however, like you said, on the hyway, with stereo blasting, high beams on, interior lights running , along with electric cooling fans, and AC, yes, your lights will dim under full throttle when the eRAMs come on.
mk
Originally Posted by SharkSkin
These represent a huge power draw. What are they, 50 amps each? So two would be 100 amps. Consider that's about 12x the power draw of both stock headlights(assuming 55W). Now consider trying to scoot down the freeway with these things on, high beams, fog lights, rear window defroster, seat heaters, defrost blower & AC... That's a lot of juice and doesn't sound sustainable. IMHO modifications that are not up to the car's design intent of being able to run for hours and hours at top speed are not worth doing.
02-03-2005, 06:05 PM
#28
Race Car
For those of you that drive really really really fast, how long would you be WOT before reaching your cruising speed? I have no idea because I have never gone from 50 - 150 before or cruised at 125.
Those that are serious about going quicker are probably not at too interested in the modest potential of these things.
Those that are serious about going quicker are probably not at too interested in the modest potential of these things.
02-03-2005, 06:06 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
are you talking about comparing to a shop vac?? we have a video demo of air flow on the website.
shop vac
1.5hp
air flow 250cfm
pressure 3psi max static
eRAM
1hp
air flow 1000cfm
pressure .7psi max static.
some of our tests we use a shop vaccum as an intake and then we try to pressurize against it. it has no problem meeting the vacuum air demands, and slightly pressurizing it. however, the air box vacuum test is FAR more relevant
mk
shop vac
1.5hp
air flow 250cfm
pressure 3psi max static
eRAM
1hp
air flow 1000cfm
pressure .7psi max static.
some of our tests we use a shop vaccum as an intake and then we try to pressurize against it. it has no problem meeting the vacuum air demands, and slightly pressurizing it. however, the air box vacuum test is FAR more relevant
mk
Originally Posted by heinrich
THIS IS REALLY EASY!!!
Someone run a dyno run. Then slap a vacuum cleaner motor on. Test again. Post results
Someone run a dyno run. Then slap a vacuum cleaner motor on. Test again. Post results
02-03-2005, 06:08 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
most stock S4s run 60-100mph in about 7-8 seconds. after that, its a little slower. However, there are not many places where you can be at full throttle, even on a hyway, for much longer!! (open road racing would not be a good application. Marc T. says he is flat out for 10 min at a time!)
mk
mk
Originally Posted by James-man
For those of you that drive really really really fast, how long would you be WOT before reaching your cruising speed? I have no idea because I have never gone from 50 - 150 before or cruised at 125.
Those that are serious about going quicker are probably not at too interested in the modest potential of these things.
Those that are serious about going quicker are probably not at too interested in the modest potential of these things.