Bill Ball

Don't feel bad. It's essentially a universal problem.

RealTech

Hey Guys-
Listen, I don't want to beat anybody up, but, this whole thread is the stuff professionals laugh about.
I won't make any comments about penny-wise pound foolish, that's too obvious. Let's stick to some of the more basic technical stuff.
First, if you think you can reposition your suspension based on the use of your setup, put the crack pipe down before you drop it and glass goes everywhere. I have aligned many 928s over the years and found it to be exceedingly difficult to get it right on an alignment machine. (Right is defined as on the nominal or custom spec +/- a few hundredths of a degree). That's right, .00 degrees. The bolt , as I think you know, is for centering the rack and steering wheel. The use of this tool actually makes it harder to align in a sense, since you cannot fudge the center. But, it is essential to a proper alignment. Also, another key element is the rideheight/susp. compression. Unless you have the proper tools and specs, you can't get it right.
Now, let's say you think this all hooey and want to do your process for the academics. Great! Do yourself a favor and have a before and after measurement, just to see close you are. If the technician is good and he lets you watch and talk to him, while he does it (tip him $20, not $5 he probably makes $40-60k) you will learn how complex an alignment it really is . You change one setting it affects another, it is multi-dimensional.

SPL
ASE Master, L1
Toyota Expert Level
Porsche Factory Trained
Hunter Alignment Trained ,Advanced Certification
Owner-
82 Euro 928 S
87 Euro 928 S4
05 Schick Mach3

AO

RealTech-

First post! Congrats and welcome!. Let me just say that I'm not doing an alignment per se. What I'm doing is pulling the front end apart (ball joints, tie rod ends, struts). Oviously when I go to put it back together I want to get the geometry back as close to the status quo. I will be taking it to an alignment shop after I'm all done. I'm just trying to get it as close as I can to where it is today.

I understand that my alignment may not be to spec today, but it seems good. Tracks straight, steering wheels is straight, even tire wear, etc. So if I can put it back to where it is today, I can at least drive it 50+ miles to settle the suspension without taking 1000 miles off the tires.

The whole idea of the steering rack centering bolt is to have a repeatable point of refernce. A zero. A reset. You're a smart guy, I'm sure you know what I mean.

Anyways, welcome to the list. I'm sure you will have lots of useful info to contribute (especially on the Hunter - lots of mis-information out there.) What's your name? where do you live? how 'bout pics of the cars?

DR

Realtech,
Nice to have an Alignment Guy who is also a 928 owner on the list. Also great to have an Alignment guy who seems to know what they are doing.

In my experience most alignment guys are either dumber than a bag of hammers or are so arrogant that they know it all and are experts on aligning a 928 even thou they "may" have only done one in their lifetime.

I can't count the times I have won a $100 bet with alignment guys when they say they can "bounce" a 928 back down to the measured height (before it was lifted) after they lift it. I have gotten lots of free dinners thanks to those "know it alls" :-).

I just wish Hunter had stressed the term "Rolling Compensation" a little more in their training classes back thru the years. Especially after the software upgrade that allows this on some of the older "wired" machines.

Anyway, enough of my alignment rant, Welcome to the 928 list. If you stay around these guys are going to try to pick your brain clean :-)

Mike LaBranche

I've assisted my 928 tech several times with alignments on my beasts. This is about the only job I farm out. Watching the read-outs on the specs (f/r camber, f/r castor, f/r toe all with ride height correct) it's pretty obvious the smallest of changes to one measurement affects all the others; corner to corner, front to back, side to side, measured in .01's and minutes. But... getting it close with lasers, strings, and tape measures pays dividends while/until you get it to your alignment shop. It's nice to have a ***** on alignment, but getting it all inside the tolerance spec will fool all but the most talented drivers.

Garth S

Welcome RealTech,
All good points you make; however, Andrew is well aware of the need for the 'real deal' - simply wants to make it to the 'rack' after a DIY fix. As for the rest of us, well we're just having some fun "helping" So join in ...

As to the serious side of correct alignment, I twice had the pleasure of following every step with a specifically 928 trained Porsche master mechanic. More recently, after a rack replacement and height adjustment on a newer aquisition (S4), I had a free afternoon on a rack with a friend in the business. We had the luxury of time to not only set every point, but to play with them a bit to evaluate effects on adjacent settings. It is an art, and was a rare opportunity to turn the wrenches and tune my own suspension. The tire set was getting tired,, so no loss if I screwed up. New Koni & tires are going on- and the final alignment wrenching will be done by the Porsche expert, with a more knowledgable owner watching.
But, we still have fun ....

Bill Ball

Real Tech:

Thanks for jumping in and please keep jumping in! I don't think we are the complete amateur dolts you fear, but it is important to keep the limits of what we are doing ourselves very clear. We are aware of the nuances in doing 928 alignments, and as Dave said we have fought our case with many alignment pros who are clueless about the car, unlike you. So, we almost always get alignments at shops that specialize in 928 service and clearly know what they are doing. That said, I do believe it is possible to do an accurate home alignment, although this is not what Alex was attempting, as long as you are familiar with the issues and have some basic alignment tools.
http://members.rennlist.com/captearlg/928align.html

Marc Schwager

When I redid the front end I worried a bit about the centering bolt and wound up doing the work without it. IIRC you can see the centering dimple on the shaft and nothing I did moved it as I installed the new tie rods. I still would have felt better with one installed, but I guess I saved around $1 on the bolt :-).

AO

Got the bolt yesterday! Thanks DR.

But I think the box was a bit overkill! Next time throw it in a padded envelope. Save us both some $$.

DR

Hi Andrew,

>Got the bolt yesterday! Thanks DR.

You are welcome and thank you for your support!

>But I think the box was a bit overkill! Next time throw it in a padded envelope.

The "un-optanium" threads might have gotten damaged that way :-)

>Save us both some $$.

With UPS a lb is a lb (and they charge a lb minimun no matter how little) and doesn't cost you any more, yes the box cost me more, but we don't charge for packaging and I prefer 928 items arrive to you in the same condition as when they left.

Thanks again,

Rez

I could of used that information 5 crack pipes ago.

928porschemangreg

So because I hate jumping in the car to go get small parts, and before I got the grinder out, I looked around for an M12x1.5 I could sacrifice. Almost gave up looking, then my old fuel pump check valve called me, and said what about me?. I looked and envisioned, taking a break from tie rod ends and sway bar bushings. The pictures tell the story. Drill it out, put in a Round head screw of sheet metal or wood screw type. Done. It works great.

I saved the old check valve, because replacing it didn't cure the hard start issue. That will be tackled some other day.




1989 S4 146,000 Mi.

Podguy

Doesn't everyone have a bucket of porsche bolts laying around. Just go to the wrecking yard and buy some bolts. I can't imagine not having extra bolt, washers and nuts laying around.

When looking for 7mm bolts for the brake backing plates NAPA did not have the right length. Orchard Supply had a much better selection.

The bolt on the rack is a standard Porsche bolt. I ground a point on one and it has worked just great. I also ground a point on a longer bolt that I use to align on the other parts of the suspension. For those braces behind the upper A arm it worked great.

jon928se

Any advance on two buckets of used Porsche nuts and bolts ?

Bill Ball

The thread pitch on that bolt is not one you will find at Orchard Hardware in that diameter or even at most auto parts stores that stock metric bolts. I looked.