Holy Sh!T what a GREAT MFD Idea
12-01-2004, 11:57 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
MFD - Multi Function Display - Carputers (title changed)
I had posed a question at Sharktoberfest about the feasability of doing some sort of integrated, touch screen multi-function display in the shark, something like a fighter jet--with digital guage displays that could also be color coded to move from green to yellow to red, to instantly alert the driver to a caution or warning condition (e.g., lean fuel condition, overheating, loss of oil pressure). Such a project is certainly beyond the scope of my abilities.
Then I stumbled across this post as I was directed to the carmp3.com website via the other post talking about GPS systems in a GTS:
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...8&page=1&pp=15
I don't know who else would be interested in such a setup, but if the Murf928 kit went from concept to polished production in record time, who wouldn't be interested in such a powerful diagnostic/media center in his/her shark?
I am absolutely awestruck by the evolution and sheer slickness of the interface. If this becomes available and consumer friendly, I will DEFINITELY get it.
Then I stumbled across this post as I was directed to the carmp3.com website via the other post talking about GPS systems in a GTS:
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...8&page=1&pp=15
I don't know who else would be interested in such a setup, but if the Murf928 kit went from concept to polished production in record time, who wouldn't be interested in such a powerful diagnostic/media center in his/her shark?
I am absolutely awestruck by the evolution and sheer slickness of the interface. If this becomes available and consumer friendly, I will DEFINITELY get it.
Last edited by bd0nalds0n; 10-09-2009 at 01:14 PM.
12-02-2004, 09:02 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
LCD panel products tend to be expensive in small volume. The last low volume LCD project I did used a 640x480 10.4 panel. We were paying about $400 for just the glass from sharp. That was a few years ago but I dont think the price has come down much. Its so strange...you can pretty much buy a complete display from Circuit City, take it apart, and pull the glass out for less than the cost of buying just the glass in low volume, wholesale. There are only a few large LCD vendors and they give great deals to anyone buying huge volumes and screw everyone else. If the glass is $400 and there is $200 in electronics and PCB you would likely be looking at about $2500->$3k min sales price.
12-02-2004, 10:03 AM
#5
Advanced
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Port Saint Lucie, Fl
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
this is cool stuff..ive been collecting pieces for a "budget" alternative, as "true" carputers and micro itx boxes go for a mint.. since i dont require allot of "power" and old laptop will work. For about $100 you can get a serial or USB driven GPS setup, another $50 or so can get you a "line in" adaptor to output sound to existing car stereos from the computer, another hundred or so for a pcmcia "TV" card if you so desire(i dont really see a need for "tv" in my cars, but some like it ). i havent looked into serial driven sensor monitoring yet (to tie in, display and anylise engine data, but they are available.) a suitable touchscreen display is the key making everything work work easily from the drivers seat.
the basic premis is to install a touchscreen display in each vehicle id want the system in, along with docking stations for the laptop, and whichever device sensors id need (one set for each car, hardwired and connected to the docking station.) then its simply a matter of programming. the laptop is configurable for external display, so you put the machine into the dock of the vehicle you want, and dont need separate brains for each car..a wireless card in the laptop would allow easy filesharing with your home pc to add to the music or video libraries as well, right from the car. you could even check email by pulling up next to a wireless hotspot or just drive though the neighborhood until you get a signal to borrow for a little while.A small wireless keyboard could be added for typing.
im betting i can set up three vehicles like this, all fully capable, for under $1500 , most of which goes to the cost of decent touch screens (at least 7" screen size, touchscreens mostly elliminate the need for a mouse and make for safer, faster control and selection.) using existing equipment i already have..if you dont mind slow loading, even and older 400 mhz laptop could be used...
the basic premis is to install a touchscreen display in each vehicle id want the system in, along with docking stations for the laptop, and whichever device sensors id need (one set for each car, hardwired and connected to the docking station.) then its simply a matter of programming. the laptop is configurable for external display, so you put the machine into the dock of the vehicle you want, and dont need separate brains for each car..a wireless card in the laptop would allow easy filesharing with your home pc to add to the music or video libraries as well, right from the car. you could even check email by pulling up next to a wireless hotspot or just drive though the neighborhood until you get a signal to borrow for a little while.A small wireless keyboard could be added for typing.
im betting i can set up three vehicles like this, all fully capable, for under $1500 , most of which goes to the cost of decent touch screens (at least 7" screen size, touchscreens mostly elliminate the need for a mouse and make for safer, faster control and selection.) using existing equipment i already have..if you dont mind slow loading, even and older 400 mhz laptop could be used...
12-02-2004, 12:08 PM
#6
Pro
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brentwood, TN
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One concept is running the operating system as firmware -- using an imbedded Linux version or the QNX operating system. Accessing the GPS, tunes, radio, is relatively trivial. Access to the data stream from the vehicle presupposes someone with the ability to code the data handling. If there is an analysis software application suite which exists to "read" the 928 as a system, then piping that read data to the uberhauptsturmkontrolmeistergearate should not be too much of a stretch. I know something about piping captured data from one sensor suite to a processing system portablized for manpack transport and utilization in situ. Can we answer the following questions: (?)
1. Is there a data collection device which will read from the 928 and output the data?
2. Is the data, as output from #1, available via USB, Serial, IEEE or other common data application communications methodology?
3. Is there a software application or a meta suite of child applications which can take possession of the data as provided in #2, and convert that data to a human readable format?
4. Has any or all of the above been done already with the 928 family of vehicles?
5. If #4 is yes, is the methodology available either free or at an affordable cost?
6. Should a bridging application be necessary to collect various data and then place it in one location for processing, do we have an asset available who can produce such an application as either freeware or shareware?
7. If such a project were feasible and affordable in a range of less than $2,000, would anyone be interested in going further with the concept?
My vision is very similar to that of Eric's ... there is a wealth of relatively low-priced and fairly dependable hardware items on market today. Plugging black boxes into one another is trivial, assuming the software all talks to one another and there is a Maestro Application. The idea of a Bluetooth cockpit is intriguing, too.
Cheers,
Dave
1. Is there a data collection device which will read from the 928 and output the data?
2. Is the data, as output from #1, available via USB, Serial, IEEE or other common data application communications methodology?
3. Is there a software application or a meta suite of child applications which can take possession of the data as provided in #2, and convert that data to a human readable format?
4. Has any or all of the above been done already with the 928 family of vehicles?
5. If #4 is yes, is the methodology available either free or at an affordable cost?
6. Should a bridging application be necessary to collect various data and then place it in one location for processing, do we have an asset available who can produce such an application as either freeware or shareware?
7. If such a project were feasible and affordable in a range of less than $2,000, would anyone be interested in going further with the concept?
My vision is very similar to that of Eric's ... there is a wealth of relatively low-priced and fairly dependable hardware items on market today. Plugging black boxes into one another is trivial, assuming the software all talks to one another and there is a Maestro Application. The idea of a Bluetooth cockpit is intriguing, too.
Cheers,
Dave
12-02-2004, 04:40 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
It seems like if this guy's system works, and can be had for a few thousand, that it would be competitive with most existing in-dash mp3/dvd/nav systems, plus helping out the SC guys who face lots of tradeoffs about where to mount additional guages. It would be much slicker to have everything incorporated into a central MFD than have guages in the ashtray or on the A-pillar.
The wireless networking into the home for MP3 downloads, etc. would be a bonus. Plus, if you track the car, the software stores all the data points, not just those being displayed. Seems like it would be very powerful.
I'd be willing to pay a couple thousand to not have to cobble together something that could be cobbeld together by someone who knew what he was dong for several hundred. The R&D/programming for the interface would be way worth it. Plus, it looks soooo cool. I think the center console of the 928 needs some SERIOUS updating.
Has anyone ever done a retrofit of a 944 climate control? Could you replace the vacuum pods with what I assume are servos for the "infinite adjust" defrost/foot vents in the 944? The ***** for fan and temp are much better looking, and the adjustablility of the vents in a 944 is a huge improvement, IMO.
Now if it's $3, 4 or 5k, it's out of my reach for now.
The wireless networking into the home for MP3 downloads, etc. would be a bonus. Plus, if you track the car, the software stores all the data points, not just those being displayed. Seems like it would be very powerful.
I'd be willing to pay a couple thousand to not have to cobble together something that could be cobbeld together by someone who knew what he was dong for several hundred. The R&D/programming for the interface would be way worth it. Plus, it looks soooo cool. I think the center console of the 928 needs some SERIOUS updating.
Has anyone ever done a retrofit of a 944 climate control? Could you replace the vacuum pods with what I assume are servos for the "infinite adjust" defrost/foot vents in the 944? The ***** for fan and temp are much better looking, and the adjustablility of the vents in a 944 is a huge improvement, IMO.
Now if it's $3, 4 or 5k, it's out of my reach for now.
Trending Topics
12-03-2004, 01:32 AM
#8
Advanced
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Port Saint Lucie, Fl
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i have a few ideas about data collection, keepingin mind that i have no idea if they are "doable" in any worthwhile manner,my background is in physical security, not computer stuff..
the thought occured to me that collecting an intrepreting data all boils down to voltage and current sensing, so if each sensor, either existing or added could be made addressable, it would make the whole subsystem allot easier to manage. so lets say you find a voltage sensing devise, and can call it #1. you place it inline with your radiator temp swich, and run its output to group one on your signal box, which plugs into your pc. so now all you need is software that tells your computer to tell your signal box to read pin one,its algorythem converts that voltage read to it equivelent temp, and displays that result. it gets more complicated with variable voltage , like a tach signal, but the basic concept is the same..it could be set up like a token ring, by polling and cycling through each sensor, or reading all signals at once (or in superfast polling which would basically be equivelent to real time reads) and display multiple information simultaneously. one addressable "box" for every sensor you want to tie into, up to the limit of the signal box inputs..
alarm systems work that way, the only difference is the information they read is constant rather than variable, it doesnt seem to far out to me to be able to do this in an automotive application, or maybe its already out there, i dont know..the concept is pretty basic, its the application thats tricky...
up the ante a bit, use your wireless conection to connect to a "base" laptop, and remote record your data on the track... i know they can already do this, but the equipment expense is beyond any normal tinkerers budget by far..i just think there must be an affordable (and compact) way to accomplish this with all the gizmos we can get today, its just a matter of identifying the parts and as said above, getting them to talk to each other..just my theory though..maybe someone with more electronics savy can figure it out for us using radio shack parts, or an old microwave or something....
Oh, and im integrating digital video via a dvr card in my system, small cameras will be mounted in each vehicle, one in the front and rear bumper, one inside, video recording directly to the harddrive..i just need to find a multi input video box thats pc controlled that i can afford.. a pci card would be much cheaper, but then the laptop is basically out and were back too itx based mini pcs with pci slots..and not car to car switchable as easily..
the thought occured to me that collecting an intrepreting data all boils down to voltage and current sensing, so if each sensor, either existing or added could be made addressable, it would make the whole subsystem allot easier to manage. so lets say you find a voltage sensing devise, and can call it #1. you place it inline with your radiator temp swich, and run its output to group one on your signal box, which plugs into your pc. so now all you need is software that tells your computer to tell your signal box to read pin one,its algorythem converts that voltage read to it equivelent temp, and displays that result. it gets more complicated with variable voltage , like a tach signal, but the basic concept is the same..it could be set up like a token ring, by polling and cycling through each sensor, or reading all signals at once (or in superfast polling which would basically be equivelent to real time reads) and display multiple information simultaneously. one addressable "box" for every sensor you want to tie into, up to the limit of the signal box inputs..
alarm systems work that way, the only difference is the information they read is constant rather than variable, it doesnt seem to far out to me to be able to do this in an automotive application, or maybe its already out there, i dont know..the concept is pretty basic, its the application thats tricky...
up the ante a bit, use your wireless conection to connect to a "base" laptop, and remote record your data on the track... i know they can already do this, but the equipment expense is beyond any normal tinkerers budget by far..i just think there must be an affordable (and compact) way to accomplish this with all the gizmos we can get today, its just a matter of identifying the parts and as said above, getting them to talk to each other..just my theory though..maybe someone with more electronics savy can figure it out for us using radio shack parts, or an old microwave or something....
Oh, and im integrating digital video via a dvr card in my system, small cameras will be mounted in each vehicle, one in the front and rear bumper, one inside, video recording directly to the harddrive..i just need to find a multi input video box thats pc controlled that i can afford.. a pci card would be much cheaper, but then the laptop is basically out and were back too itx based mini pcs with pci slots..and not car to car switchable as easily..
12-03-2004, 11:18 AM
#9
Instructor
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok so i didn't yet red all but here's how it goes.
The system in it's basic functions is able to provide what any carputer provides but in one simple, robust and elegant way and i think i will sell this one around 1600 Euro apart if there are some surprises like taxes etc but actually i have no more informations about this, i'm not a business man.
The interface is here to avoid you searching icons or using drop down menus and as i like to say, it could certainely display anything like icons but we are not at home while we drive, so the information must be fast understood or you put your life at risk if you have to bother with small things on the screen.
There is no hidden stupid keboard as this one is virtual and is displayed only when needed, no mouse and the unit is not in the glove box but in the trunk instead.
It is possible to update the system by buying optionnal elements like the one especially designed for those which have no OBD but also for those who have OBD. For information OBD is a protocol very restrictive with it's ability to manage high speed rates of informations.
So that's why i made one PCB which is able to gather informations at 5 Khz (5000 measures per second) on each channel. There are 10 possible channels supposed to monitor whatever you want and at this point no OBD system can get and refresh informations so fast.OBD offers a rate around 3 Hz (measures per second).
There is no TV pcb inside but it still can capture informations trough the box, there's one video capture input and also on the screen there are 2 independant of the box video inputs in addition to the VGA. So overall we have 3 video inputs.
There's is also one option which should be running in 2005 i hope, it depends of the success or not of the first carputers to be sold, a HUD which is able to run with the main screen but displaying different informations. It should be also possible to get only the HUD instead a touch screen, then the box would be driven by simple buttons or infra red remote.
About the tracking, the problem with this is that when the satelittes are defeated by a garage box or high towers or any other obstacle, then no one knows where your car is.
Fortunately as the system is storing all the routes and waypoints, the system is able to survive through the multimode cellular. How ?
It looks the history of the last known point and transmits it to the owner if the owner launched the counter measures against thief.
I think everything is explained step by step in the mp3car.com but as i have not a lot of time to feed this topic anymore, i am concentrating myself on the papers i have to fullfill and that's huge at least here in France and i have to finish the integrating on the target. Naturally i reply to any mail as soon as possible.
Thanks a lot about your comments that helps me keep going on.
The system in it's basic functions is able to provide what any carputer provides but in one simple, robust and elegant way and i think i will sell this one around 1600 Euro apart if there are some surprises like taxes etc but actually i have no more informations about this, i'm not a business man.
The interface is here to avoid you searching icons or using drop down menus and as i like to say, it could certainely display anything like icons but we are not at home while we drive, so the information must be fast understood or you put your life at risk if you have to bother with small things on the screen.
There is no hidden stupid keboard as this one is virtual and is displayed only when needed, no mouse and the unit is not in the glove box but in the trunk instead.
It is possible to update the system by buying optionnal elements like the one especially designed for those which have no OBD but also for those who have OBD. For information OBD is a protocol very restrictive with it's ability to manage high speed rates of informations.
So that's why i made one PCB which is able to gather informations at 5 Khz (5000 measures per second) on each channel. There are 10 possible channels supposed to monitor whatever you want and at this point no OBD system can get and refresh informations so fast.OBD offers a rate around 3 Hz (measures per second).
There is no TV pcb inside but it still can capture informations trough the box, there's one video capture input and also on the screen there are 2 independant of the box video inputs in addition to the VGA. So overall we have 3 video inputs.
There's is also one option which should be running in 2005 i hope, it depends of the success or not of the first carputers to be sold, a HUD which is able to run with the main screen but displaying different informations. It should be also possible to get only the HUD instead a touch screen, then the box would be driven by simple buttons or infra red remote.
About the tracking, the problem with this is that when the satelittes are defeated by a garage box or high towers or any other obstacle, then no one knows where your car is.
Fortunately as the system is storing all the routes and waypoints, the system is able to survive through the multimode cellular. How ?
It looks the history of the last known point and transmits it to the owner if the owner launched the counter measures against thief.
I think everything is explained step by step in the mp3car.com but as i have not a lot of time to feed this topic anymore, i am concentrating myself on the papers i have to fullfill and that's huge at least here in France and i have to finish the integrating on the target. Naturally i reply to any mail as soon as possible.
Thanks a lot about your comments that helps me keep going on.
12-03-2004, 12:13 PM
#10
What about simply using one of the off the shelf video/mp3 units with a built in hard drive and color screens...Seems they are becoming popular and price is sure to drop. Form factor lends itself to console/dash placement. So far I have seen a RCA Lyra, Creative Zen ....most of the screens are 4.5 max..but im sure they will get bigger..and would think wiring it in would be pretty easy?...even connect to existing stereo aux input...?..
just some random suggestions...
later,
Tom
midlman@rennlist.net
89GT
just some random suggestions...
later,
Tom
midlman@rennlist.net
89GT
12-04-2004, 09:49 AM
#11
Instructor
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To have a simple and clear overview before entering in the forum i would suggest
http://www.9xx-cars.com
http://www.9xx-cars.com
12-04-2004, 04:50 PM
#12
Pro
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brentwood, TN
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guys and girls, if you haven't already been to Kraft's forum, you better go now. Enjoy the illustrations just for the morvelous graphic artistry if you have no other interest. Maybe it is the soothing blue colors, but his concept and touch screen methodology is mind-numbingly awesome.
http://www.9xx-cars.com/board/index.php?
Cheers,
Dave
http://www.9xx-cars.com/board/index.php?
Cheers,
Dave
12-04-2004, 06:00 PM
#13
Instructor
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By the way i don't know who is Misterfixit which has registered lately but my forum seems to be in a buggy state so it's comments doesn't appear but i wish to thank him anyway as i received a copy of his post in my mail.
The blue forum is not my work, it's only one out of the box forum and skin.
The only thing i made is the pilot for the sharks as the sharks seems to appreciate it more or less
The funny thing is that Anjin San name means the Pilot.
Anyway this interface is designed to be human friendly and to integrate as best as possible the needed things in car but if the blue colors are disturbing it's still possible to make them fit how you want, it's just a matter to design a new skin and btw chose some new colours.
About the functionnality i still believe that a carputer must ease the life in a car providing comfort and clever informations. If it's not able to offer that then better avoid using one.
The blue forum is not my work, it's only one out of the box forum and skin.
The only thing i made is the pilot for the sharks as the sharks seems to appreciate it more or less
The funny thing is that Anjin San name means the Pilot.
Anyway this interface is designed to be human friendly and to integrate as best as possible the needed things in car but if the blue colors are disturbing it's still possible to make them fit how you want, it's just a matter to design a new skin and btw chose some new colours.
About the functionnality i still believe that a carputer must ease the life in a car providing comfort and clever informations. If it's not able to offer that then better avoid using one.
12-04-2004, 11:24 PM
#14
Pro
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brentwood, TN
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by kraft
By the way i don't know who is Misterfixit which has registered lately but my forum seems to be in a buggy state so it's comments doesn't appear but i wish to thank him anyway as i received a copy of his post in my mail.
The blue forum is not my work, it's only one out of the box forum and skin.
The only thing i made is the pilot for the sharks as the sharks seems to appreciate it more or less
The funny thing is that Anjin San name means the Pilot.
Anyway this interface is designed to be human friendly and to integrate as best as possible the needed things in car but if the blue colors are disturbing it's still possible to make them fit how you want, it's just a matter to design a new skin and btw chose some new colours.
About the functionnality i still believe that a carputer must ease the life in a car providing comfort and clever informations. If it's not able to offer that then better avoid using one.
The blue forum is not my work, it's only one out of the box forum and skin.
The only thing i made is the pilot for the sharks as the sharks seems to appreciate it more or less
The funny thing is that Anjin San name means the Pilot.
Anyway this interface is designed to be human friendly and to integrate as best as possible the needed things in car but if the blue colors are disturbing it's still possible to make them fit how you want, it's just a matter to design a new skin and btw chose some new colours.
About the functionnality i still believe that a carputer must ease the life in a car providing comfort and clever informations. If it's not able to offer that then better avoid using one.
Mon Cher Kraft ("M. Papier d'emballage" Non?), "Misterfixit" est le nom d'plume de CWO4 Dave Mann. J'emploie le "misterfixit" de surnom au lieu de "CWO4 Mann" -- parce que "CWO4 Mann" est mon rang militaire et mon nom de famille. Merci encore de l'excellente information. Quand est-ce que je suis du prochain déplacement en France, peut-être devrions-nous nous réunir pour le déjeuner et la conversation ? Je propose de me réunir au "The Crocodile" ; dans Strasburg... ils ont un excellent menu !
(Hello Dear Kraft, Misterfixit is my nickname when I don't use CWO4 Mann, which is a military rank and family name. Thanks a lot for the great information. Next time I am in France, let's do lunch. How about "The Crocodile" in Strasbourg .. their menu is to die for ...)
12-05-2004, 06:01 AM
#15
Instructor
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ahhhh ok
Kraft is derived from the German word.
So if i'm not living under the bridges, in other words if i can start my activity or even find a job then i'll be happy to go to "The Crocodile" in Strasbourg
Kraft is derived from the German word.
So if i'm not living under the bridges, in other words if i can start my activity or even find a job then i'll be happy to go to "The Crocodile" in Strasbourg