hacker-pschorr

I wasn't going to put this in my window due to possibly joining the SCCA - I'm having 2nd thoughts now:

S - Spoiled
C - Children
C - Crashing
A - Automobiles

Jim_H

*BUMP*

Randy V

Well, shoot, you shoulda let me know. Do you need 'Rennlist Member' added to your forum name?

Guys, I'll top this for a few days, but to be honest, it seems that this will be a losing battle. The Rules seem pretty cut-and-dried.

Mongo

well now thats just a huge bowl of bullsh*t

Steve J.

I don't like it either but I understand their position. Maybe some good will come out of this. We might look back in a couple of years and realize it was a good thing?.....................or maybe not. Seems like they could grant a variance on an individual basis.

Sierra Shark

Mark, I have to agree with Quick Carl. You know better than anybody that in the motorsport world money talks and bulls--it walks. You have had an incredible run in your division and right or wrong the SCCA has allowed you to totally humiliate big money teams on national television. All the whining in the world won't change a thing. Remember the past where other individuals with bright minds humiliated the money competition? Briggs Cunningham, Caroll Shelby, Dan Gurney, Colin Chapman to name a few. When the money teams complained the rules changed. You are a testament to racing knowhow and good sportsmanship. To bad groups like the SCCA and others can't or won't recognize a place for this type of competition and create a venue for it. These are the same guys that ran me out of SOLO and Autocross back in the eighties because we found a ***** in their rules armour. (A story for another day) Vintage racing would be fun but not the kind of ***** to walls action you're used to. Best of luck. Never give up.

bcdavis

This kind of thing has happened in motorsports forever.
When cars got too fast, they restricted the engines.
They banned turbos in NHRA drag-racing.
When they got too aerodynamic, they outlawed certain aerodynamic aids, and reduced wing sizes.
Audi was banned for having a huge advantage with 4WD.
The 917... Banned.
Racetracks themselves were redone, to eliminate some car's advantages.
Cars are forced to add weight, or add restrictor plates.
This is no different.
If you have a car that is faster than all the others, then you do not have a race.
You have a slaughter.
So whenever someone comes up with something good, they win for a couple races,
or a couple seasons. And if the other teams can adapt, fine... But if they can't,
and one car keeps dominating, then they ban it somehow.

And I agree 100% that money talks.
Those other big carmakers, and advertisers, give them millions of dollars
in advertising money and sponsorship. So having an old car like the 928
embarassing their top of the line racecars, is unacceptable.
What the race promoters want to show, is all the latest modern
cars, racing against each other, in somewhat close competition.
That is what they want to show on TV. Not vintage cars.
I am sure that a LOT of vintage race cars, like Can-AM
cars, if you put them out there, would kick their asses too.
Why not let indy cars compete? Because they would kick ***.

That's the world of competitive racing.

If you invent an amazingly fast car, it will probably not be legal.

4wd? Illegal.
Turbos? Illegal.
Nitrous? Illegal.
Most things that might give you an advantage in speed, are illegal in most forms of racing.

goliver

This sucks and I let them know of my displeasure. Mark you really should race for a fully funded team! Call The Racers Group or Mckenna.

Regards,

mark kibort

hey, before you guys go nuts bashing SCCA, its not SCCA racing thats the problem, and its not even SCCA PRO racing (managing body of SpeedGT, Speed touring, F2000, transam, and a few more) all of the groups are pretty fair, except SpeedGT. it doesnt know whether it wants to be ALMS or Pro Miata challenge! its confused. the idea is sound, but the politics and money have got in the way. You want fair racing to test your skills, try the Speed Touring, or even the Pro Miata challenge. you really want to test your skill, but dont like the sound of a 4 banger? then, go Race GRAND AM CUP. (basically stock Hi-perf cars with headers, lightweight on DOTs. Geee, just what we all thought SpeedGT would be!!!!) Anyway, speedGT has got out of control, and its due to Audi, Caddy trying to pay for a name for themselves. Heck, if they were all smart, they would follow Grand Am Cup rules, which as was said, are very close to the the foundation of the spirit of SpeedGT (x Speedvision GT) Just 4 years ago, a 10 year old car would have placed 10th out of 40 cars, and some of the top drivers in the country. shows the level of capabilty of the 928. Now, things got a little out of hand with the introduction of the cup car and then, the spec VET, vipers comp coupe, and now caddy, audi, and frankenstein mustangs!!!

What this means , is the SCCA club stuff is very fair and really allows for drivers and low budget teams to show well and they also allow for cinderella stories. you want fair production racing, go buy a C6 or C5 z06 and enter it in T1 SCCA . there is even a national televised event callled the run-offs. just watched it last night. good stuff. (but they are all vets!)

before you start to feel too sorry for us and our old 928s, understand the car Mark A was running too!
The 928 has no place running in this pro series. we should be thankful Mark A. did what he did over his 15+ starts . for my 7+ im incredibly grateful. It was a ton of fun and certainly helped me as a driver as well. But, lets take a deep breath, and really look at what we are asking SCCA Pro racing to do for us! Mark, in his car, finally met the "real" level of this series, and placed 18th. next year, the cars will be even faster, and not be clad with entire season of rewards weights. He did a fantastic job, and its over now.

Now, its on to all of us investing in Cup cars (with motorsport upgrades = $170k) if we want to race pro!!

MK

heinrich

Not the point to me, I am a 928 fan and want to see it race, and not be held back because of a rule change. Had the car not performed I would have said no problem .... but the 928 has performed very well, and I believe had a ways to go before ending its short racing career. I want to see the 928 on Speed TV ... why else do I even watch? 911's are 10 a penny.

Sierra Shark

Mark K. I agree and disagree with you at the same time. Yes SCCA club racing is very fair and SCCA Pro racing is a very well oiled machine. But... the oil it takes to grease the skids comes from corporate sponsers and factory interests. Now is it fair to blame the corporations for offering the big money or the SCCA for taking it? Probably neither. It's what racing is in these times. Since the SCCA offers up a given set of rules for each class of racing and those rules are the ones racers agree to before they get to compete then no one should be crying foul. I just would like to see a venue open up for this class and age of racing cars (not vintage trailer queens) but all out, run what you brung, paint swapping racing. Same as SCCA Pro without the factory boys/money involved. However Speed GT really has an identity crisis. What's up with that?

drnick

mark A and mark K, i want to aplaud your efforts and say congrats for your achievements which have been inspiring to us all, well done!!

mark kibort

"identity crisis" ?? you bet. I absolutely agree, but it aint goint to happen. if it did, it would be cool. sure, keep it to a 20 year window. there are tons of 928 type cars that are really competive that could run . ( ferarri 355, vet C4, etc.)
the field has to be brought back to reality, and reality is cars as they came off the production line, but bolt on all you can!!!! stiffen the chassis, but leave the suspension attachment points alone except to make camber, and keep the engines basically stock (small mods) We are talking GrandAM Cup here, but without the pitstops!! thats my kind of racing. however, it wont happen for the reasons you have mention. corp infuence!!! lots of money spent to make sure a particular model of car can actually be guaranteed a win!

It would be pretty cool to see a old 20 year old stock 928 keep up with Andy Pilgrim in a CTSV (stockish , with stock 400hp , etc) with its basic production form, rather than a ALMS GTS wanna be with 600hp and restrictors from keeping it from flying!

mk

Sierra Shark

Hey MARK A. You've been pretty quite through this fire storm. Can't say as I blame you. I know, how about a bunch of us cut of the backs of rides like you did to that red s4 I saw at Sharktoberfest. We could invent a new class of pick'em up truck racing 928 style ?!?!?!?

Sierra Shark

By the way Mark, how's that gun rack for the pick'em up truck coming along????