Carl Fausett

One more thing - yes, it needs a cold-air intake for the air filter. Agreed. I have it designed.
No problem, there are big deals and little deals and thats a little deal.

Z

Actually, if anything you said it:
What I'm saying is that Carl's car was quicker than your's, and his setup costs a good bit less than yours, his installs easier than yours, his doesn't have the ground clearance issues that your's does, and his is more easily removed if it needs to be for emissions testing. And as far as the comments you've made before about yours looking stock under the hood, the only person you could convince of that is somebody who's never seen a 928 with the hood open before. With the plumbing that hangs out from under the front of the car, it doesn't look stock way before anybody gets close enough to even look under the hood.

I guess that may be all that's important or "real" in your world. You bring back memories of guys I used to know in high school that had big tunnel ram manifolds and big double pumper carburetors on otherwise stock cars with otherwise stock smallblocks in them. They'd always want to race from a running start, because their cars would just bog and sit there if they floored it off the line. I guess I can't blame you. If I had turbo lag I'd probably prefer to do 50-120mph runs too. What about that big power you talk about at 3k RPM though? Since you repeatedly say that the centrifugals only make real boost at redline, and "you have to shift sometime", maybe "real world" for you would be like starting at 50mph, 3k RPM, and nobody's allowed to downshift? Maybe your "real world type stuff" could limit it so that Carl has to start at 3k RPM, not be allowed to downshift, and has to upshift at 4k RPM? You never know. It is possible that Carl might agree to something like that. How would you do that? Before you guys start out, you tell Carl to wait for you once he gets to 50mph, and then once you catch up and get there, you both floor it? It's a possibility, but he might get bored waiting until you got up to the 50mph though.

You mean maybe something like comparing your freshly rebuilt, Nikasil plated, custom forged piston, MAF conversion, twin turbocharged with upgraded intercooling engine to Carl's when it was all stock stock except for his supercharger installation? Or do you mean like comparing that current engine of yours to stock engines that people who might buy your kit would install it on? Maybe they'll all be doing complete engine rebuilds with all that custom pistons and block plating stuff when they put the turbo setup on? Would it be like when you buy something that says "batteries not included", only in this case it would be "freshly rebuilt, Nikasil plated block, custom forged pistons, and free flowing exhaust not included"? So far you've got two of those turbocharged examples. One has all that stuff and the other was in the process of getting it. When you had the opportunities to make comparisons to stock engines with just the turbo installations, you never did it, with either car. So much for "apples to apples" I guess. You then even make the performance comparison of your turbocharger modified car to a stock S4. When comparisons have been brought up in the past to some of the supercharged S4 cars, you whine about it not being fair to compare your car to theirs, but comparing your's with the modifications to a stock car is fair? Go ahead and compare my normally aspirated S4 A/T performance figures to your car's, even with you having the turbos and other modifications it had before. Mine beats your's to 60mph by the same amount Carl's did, mine does the same 1/4 mile time even when I hit the brakes over a second before even getting to the end of the 1/4 mile, and that's even with mine weighing a couple of hundred pounds more than your's.

Some of us have seen pictures of it though, and have also seen the turbo car you had at Wichita. The two sure look fairly similar in some of their configuration and routing of some of the plumbing. Of course we didn't see that car on the dyno there in Wichita. I know, I know, the transmission couldn't handle all of the torque that the engine was making, and that's why you didn't put it on the dyno then. With all of that massive torque that the engine was making, why did you pull the engine, send it off to get Nikasil plated and do a rebuild so soon after Wichita? Did it have anything to do with that oil under your car when it was on the convention center floor there in Wichita?

Those performance measurements you stated for your car sure weren't from 10+ years ago.

I guess you're the only one that it sees that way too, since you never did do any dyno tests before you did that engine rebuild, Nikasil plated block, custom forged pistons, MAF conversion, etc. to actually know how much if any horsepower was actually added. Wiithout really having any actual information, I guess 70hp is just as good as any other number to throw out there though.

Yes, Carl's car is a '78 Euro. Stock it's rated at 229hp and 250ft/lbs. Your's is an '81 and stock is rated at 220hp and 265ft/lbs. So even with your stock car making 15ft/lbs more torque than Carl's did stock, his was still quicker to 60mph supercharged than yours was turbocharged. Even with your car starting out with more torque than his car, the bigger lower end torque from the turbos you always talk about still wasn't enough to make your car as quick as Carl's with the supercharger installation.

Sounded like a tight squeeze when you described the manifolds in that above post. Did more room become available when you started trying to sell the kits?

Yes, only half a second slower to 60mph than Carl's, and the same as his in the quarter mile. And for only a good bit more money and installation complexity for yours than his too. It sounds just great.

Yes, and all you needed to do it was rebuild the engine, Nikasil plate it, get the custom forged pistons, do a MAF conversion, have a free flowing exhaust, remove the cats, remove the air pump, run 4 psi more boost and get a bigger intercooler than your original setup, and have him base his calculations on the "before" horsepower of a completely stock '81 with it's only modification being the lower boost figure that you initially stated.

I think it is interesting that you're following along the same path of trying to sell turbocharger installations on 928s like Callaway did. You might also learn something he did too. I think I remember you once saying that he sold a total of five of them. That was back when the cars were still worth a considerable amount, and a car that had performance numbers like yours was pretty rare when compared to other new cars of the time. You're not the only one that's started down that path since then either. That guy up in the Pacific Northwest that's been mentioned before only built one twin turbo S4. Apparently the customer never even took delivery when it was finished, and the car was never really driven since being built about 15 years or so ago. Years ago there were a few people talking about the high power turbo 928s that they were building using 944 turbo components. Seen any? I know the guys at FAST started on 928 turbo development, but then went to the centrifugal superchargers instead. Even with there being some reported issues with their centrifugal setups, they've sold more of those than all of the different turbo 928 guys combined.

Maybe it'll be different. Maybe people are finally ready to buy turbo installation kits that cost more than the cars they're supposed to go on, for performance that's less than even many current stock luxury cars and even some SUVs and pickup trucks, and that makes less horsepower than some normally aspirated Hondas with engines a fraction of the size.

BC

Did I hear my name?

AO

Who's the girl?

Tony

Let me pull up a chair.

SharkSkin

Popcorn's popping...

Carl Fausett

Are you waiting for me?

My appointment at the Dynojet Dyno is at 1:00 tomorrow (Friday 18th)
with the supercharged L-Jet. I will post chart and air/fuel info.

I have had her out on the backroads today and I think I have the air/fuel tuned in pretty well. She stayed nice and on the rich side of things thru 8 psi at 6000 RPM. This observation is just by the air/fuel gauge inside the car. Tomorrow I will have numbers.

SharkSkin

I think Tony & I were both referring to the same thing... Z's post.

Tony

yup, dont sweat it Carl. Then again, your in Wisconsin and you cant sweat this time of year anyway Looks like snow soon?

rjtw

Woo-hoo! Carl is coming through with the goods! Way to go Carl!!

Carl, it looks like you are blowing straight through the stock AFM. There have been a number of hypothetical discussions on this topic, some claiming that this won't work. Looks to me like it does. Have you discovered any AFM or fuel mixture problems? And, what if anything are you doing to compensate for boost -- RRFPR, piggyback electronics etc.?? What does tuning the A/F ratio involve?

This looks great!!

Rick

GoRideSno

LOL...I actually have a lot of production parts for the 16V systems made. I just need to find the time to get a few more measurements and make a few CAD drawings. I am bound to do it because I owe Jim Bailey one and Dave Roberts will be getting one too. The move to Atl set me back quite a bit on time.

Andy K

PorKen

You were too quick, Andy! I deleted the post, cuz I wasn't sure if you wanted to get caught up in this thread... anyway, restored from the cache for context.

toofast928

Carl you the man! I wanna know what 350HP feels like..................

GoRideSno

Thanks for your consideration Porken.
I won't get caught up in the fray though.

Seasoned FI fans know the true technological hierarchy of systems with turbos at the top. No need to argue, facts are facts.

That's why this sitcom is funny enough to have made it to the 2nd season.

I think a better comparison than That 70's Show though would be Hogan's Heroes. I guess a mix between the two would be most appropriate, Hogan's heroes but set in Wisconsin. John would be Hogan imprisoned (on the internet atleast) by an army of the mis-guided that wants to take over the world with their master centrifical plan. Of course it's a comedy of errors by all but the hero John.
We'll need a new theme song and a prelude to the show. As the commercials end........
Imagine a loud whistling/whining noise in the background as Z, Lag and the crew are all riding in a Black Vortech SCed 928. They'e wearing funny looking uniforms tall jack boots, long gloves and a symbol on their uniforms that looks like a Vortech impeller. In each's hand is their favorite beverage. They are lipsynching the words to this song.

Hanging out
On Rennlist
That same old thing
We did last week
Not a thing to do
But F with John..
centrifugals are right
all else is wrong
(bridge)
Hanging out
On Rennlist
The same old thing
Like packing cheese
Not a thing to do
but per-se-cute (anything that's not centrifical and/or from WI)
We're all always right
You're all always wrong

HELLO WISCONSIN!


ANdy K

Carl Fausett

From FJTW - Yes, many of the same folks who told me you cannot blow into CIS have told me you cannot blow into L-Jetronic too. I have been driving this car for 2 days now, cold starts, warm starts, 6,000 RPM runs, EVERYTHING and I can tell you I have it tuned to where it idles smoothly s at 800 RPM, blips up to high rrr's very very quickly, returns right to smooth idle. Pulls hard from about 3300 to 6000 RPM.

There have been some "discovery" items, and a learning curve with the L-Jet - especially the L-Jet intake shoe (below the throttle body). I was able to stay away from auxiliary injectors, larger injectors, and expensive and complicated EMU systems (piggyback electronics). Like our other kits, we like to be very efficient and make as few changes as we can and still get it right. It keeps costs down, and simplifies installation and maintenance.

I do not want to say too much yet - I want confirmation of my air/fuel ratios at the dyno tomorrow. Mike Schmidt is going to try to meet me there at 1 if he can.

I've been looking all over for my G-Tech Pro in the hopes of posting a acceleration chart, or a 1/4 mile run. Cannot find it. Found my old one - G-tech Original model. It might give me at least a 1/4 mile idea of what's going on.