Front Inner Bearing race... sigh
01-01-2010, 01:43 PM
#32
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I'm good on getting the old race out, and the new races are in and seated properly. Now I'm putting them all back together and am wondering about volumes of grease to add.
01-01-2010, 01:43 PM
#33
Drifting
It's not critical. Any excess will be extruded out when you assemble the outer bearing on the spindle. It should be a high temperature grease so it doesn't liquify under normal/extreme conditions.
You pack each bearing before assembly. So, notice how the hub packing is between the inner and outer bearings only.
You pack each bearing before assembly. So, notice how the hub packing is between the inner and outer bearings only.
10-29-2010, 07:52 PM
#34
I replaced the front bearings on one side of the car today.
Is it normal for the races to be super difficult to get into the hub even after freezing them overnight and heating the hub in the oven (350F for about 45min) just prior to installation?
There was no trouble getting the old races out...didn't even have to heat the hub. Just a bit of hammering with a drift and they worked out pretty easy
Installing the new races was another story. Using the freeze/heat method on the new races still required lots of pounding on my Harbor Freight bearing race driver. The races weren't even remotely close to just dropping in like some people are able to achieve.
The other side of the car still needs to be done. Any more tips to make it easier? Should the hub be heated a lot longer I did? Higher temperature? If so, how long? How high?
I think these races were forged by the hand of Satan himself.
Is it normal for the races to be super difficult to get into the hub even after freezing them overnight and heating the hub in the oven (350F for about 45min) just prior to installation?
There was no trouble getting the old races out...didn't even have to heat the hub. Just a bit of hammering with a drift and they worked out pretty easy
Installing the new races was another story. Using the freeze/heat method on the new races still required lots of pounding on my Harbor Freight bearing race driver. The races weren't even remotely close to just dropping in like some people are able to achieve.
The other side of the car still needs to be done. Any more tips to make it easier? Should the hub be heated a lot longer I did? Higher temperature? If so, how long? How high?
I think these races were forged by the hand of Satan himself.
10-29-2010, 10:47 PM
#37
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If you are going to the trouble of pulling the hubs off and replacing anything, you should replace the cups and cones together.
Heating the aluminum hub is the ONLY reliable way to get the cups out. It takes a while to get them hot enough. Put a piece of foil under the hub to catch any remaining grease and the bearing when it falls out. Aluminum hub is way softer than the bearing, so beating the bearing out will undoubtedly hurt the hub.
If you decide to use the old race to help install the new race, turn the old race soit's facing the same direction as the old one. So skinny face to skinny face, so you have the fat face in. Better to be able to get a drft on the fat edge to pop it out.
Fill the bearing with grease, but avoid packing the hub itself full of grease. The grease expandsandcontracts with heat, and a full hub will push grease past the seal as it heats, and will suck in water when the hot hub gets a splash. The cone section holds plenty of grease for the rollers when packed correctly. Centrifugal force keeps the cone full. You do want to fill the gap between the inner cone and the seal, and you may decide to add some to the dust cap but it isn't really necessaary or even desirable.
For those playing along at home, the Mobil-1 synthetic grease is great for wheel bearings, as is the Redline CV-1. They are the same color as the original too. Long-fiber "wheel bearing grease" is better for ball bearings than rollers. Lots of opinions on greases floating around.
Adjust the bearings looser rather than tighter. Seat the assembly with a snug pull on the adjusting nuts. Then back them off. Tighten just with finger pressure and you'll be real close. The screwdriver wiggle on the washer is still a valid test, giving you an idea about how little torque is needed. Think inch-pounds.
Check the spindle, particularly the bottom of the spindle where the inner bearing rides. If there's wear or galling there, hunt down a new set of spindles. You'll never be able to keep the bearings adjusted correctly with a worn spindle. The wheel will rock slightly, and you'll be tightenning the adjustment nut trying to take out the play. But you can't, and you'll eat the new bearings when they are too tight. Then the inner bearing will get noisy and will wear the spindle even more.
Heating the aluminum hub is the ONLY reliable way to get the cups out. It takes a while to get them hot enough. Put a piece of foil under the hub to catch any remaining grease and the bearing when it falls out. Aluminum hub is way softer than the bearing, so beating the bearing out will undoubtedly hurt the hub.
If you decide to use the old race to help install the new race, turn the old race soit's facing the same direction as the old one. So skinny face to skinny face, so you have the fat face in. Better to be able to get a drft on the fat edge to pop it out.
Fill the bearing with grease, but avoid packing the hub itself full of grease. The grease expandsandcontracts with heat, and a full hub will push grease past the seal as it heats, and will suck in water when the hot hub gets a splash. The cone section holds plenty of grease for the rollers when packed correctly. Centrifugal force keeps the cone full. You do want to fill the gap between the inner cone and the seal, and you may decide to add some to the dust cap but it isn't really necessaary or even desirable.
For those playing along at home, the Mobil-1 synthetic grease is great for wheel bearings, as is the Redline CV-1. They are the same color as the original too. Long-fiber "wheel bearing grease" is better for ball bearings than rollers. Lots of opinions on greases floating around.
Adjust the bearings looser rather than tighter. Seat the assembly with a snug pull on the adjusting nuts. Then back them off. Tighten just with finger pressure and you'll be real close. The screwdriver wiggle on the washer is still a valid test, giving you an idea about how little torque is needed. Think inch-pounds.
Check the spindle, particularly the bottom of the spindle where the inner bearing rides. If there's wear or galling there, hunt down a new set of spindles. You'll never be able to keep the bearings adjusted correctly with a worn spindle. The wheel will rock slightly, and you'll be tightenning the adjustment nut trying to take out the play. But you can't, and you'll eat the new bearings when they are too tight. Then the inner bearing will get noisy and will wear the spindle even more.
10-30-2010, 10:28 AM
#39
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So you are saying that welding a ring around the race is not a reliable way to remove them??????????????????????
It is pretty much the only way I take them out, far better, quicker, and much easier than heating them.
When the weld cools it will shrink the race enough for it to just fall out.
We use this method on many things, including valve seats, never had one not come out.
IMHO no one who works on cars should be with out a GOOD MIG, not one of the flux core things.
It is pretty much the only way I take them out, far better, quicker, and much easier than heating them.
When the weld cools it will shrink the race enough for it to just fall out.
We use this method on many things, including valve seats, never had one not come out.
IMHO no one who works on cars should be with out a GOOD MIG, not one of the flux core things.
If you are going to the trouble of pulling the hubs off and replacing anything, you should replace the cups and cones together.
Heating the aluminum hub is the ONLY reliable way to get the cups out. It takes a while to get them hot enough. Put a piece of foil under the hub to catch any remaining grease and the bearing when it falls out. Aluminum hub is way softer than the bearing, so beating the bearing out will undoubtedly hurt the hub.
If you decide to use the old race to help install the new race, turn the old race soit's facing the same direction as the old one. So skinny face to skinny face, so you have the fat face in. Better to be able to get a drft on the fat edge to pop it out.
Fill the bearing with grease, but avoid packing the hub itself full of grease. The grease expandsandcontracts with heat, and a full hub will push grease past the seal as it heats, and will suck in water when the hot hub gets a splash. The cone section holds plenty of grease for the rollers when packed correctly. Centrifugal force keeps the cone full. You do want to fill the gap between the inner cone and the seal, and you may decide to add some to the dust cap but it isn't really necessaary or even desirable.
For those playing along at home, the Mobil-1 synthetic grease is great for wheel bearings, as is the Redline CV-1. They are the same color as the original too. Long-fiber "wheel bearing grease" is better for ball bearings than rollers. Lots of opinions on greases floating around.
Adjust the bearings looser rather than tighter. Seat the assembly with a snug pull on the adjusting nuts. Then back them off. Tighten just with finger pressure and you'll be real close. The screwdriver wiggle on the washer is still a valid test, giving you an idea about how little torque is needed. Think inch-pounds.
Check the spindle, particularly the bottom of the spindle where the inner bearing rides. If there's wear or galling there, hunt down a new set of spindles. You'll never be able to keep the bearings adjusted correctly with a worn spindle. The wheel will rock slightly, and you'll be tightenning the adjustment nut trying to take out the play. But you can't, and you'll eat the new bearings when they are too tight. Then the inner bearing will get noisy and will wear the spindle even more.
Heating the aluminum hub is the ONLY reliable way to get the cups out. It takes a while to get them hot enough. Put a piece of foil under the hub to catch any remaining grease and the bearing when it falls out. Aluminum hub is way softer than the bearing, so beating the bearing out will undoubtedly hurt the hub.
If you decide to use the old race to help install the new race, turn the old race soit's facing the same direction as the old one. So skinny face to skinny face, so you have the fat face in. Better to be able to get a drft on the fat edge to pop it out.
Fill the bearing with grease, but avoid packing the hub itself full of grease. The grease expandsandcontracts with heat, and a full hub will push grease past the seal as it heats, and will suck in water when the hot hub gets a splash. The cone section holds plenty of grease for the rollers when packed correctly. Centrifugal force keeps the cone full. You do want to fill the gap between the inner cone and the seal, and you may decide to add some to the dust cap but it isn't really necessaary or even desirable.
For those playing along at home, the Mobil-1 synthetic grease is great for wheel bearings, as is the Redline CV-1. They are the same color as the original too. Long-fiber "wheel bearing grease" is better for ball bearings than rollers. Lots of opinions on greases floating around.
Adjust the bearings looser rather than tighter. Seat the assembly with a snug pull on the adjusting nuts. Then back them off. Tighten just with finger pressure and you'll be real close. The screwdriver wiggle on the washer is still a valid test, giving you an idea about how little torque is needed. Think inch-pounds.
Check the spindle, particularly the bottom of the spindle where the inner bearing rides. If there's wear or galling there, hunt down a new set of spindles. You'll never be able to keep the bearings adjusted correctly with a worn spindle. The wheel will rock slightly, and you'll be tightenning the adjustment nut trying to take out the play. But you can't, and you'll eat the new bearings when they are too tight. Then the inner bearing will get noisy and will wear the spindle even more.
10-30-2010, 11:53 AM
#40
Team Owner
The procedure for replacing the wheel bearing races is in the WSM .
Tom if your having fitment issues either you have the wrong parts or you damaged the race seat ,
in that case you may have to look for a used hub.
When done per the WSM the heated hub and frozen bearing race will just about drop in ./ And fall out.
IIRC heat the hub to 250 degrees not 350 and make sure all of the grease is out of the hub, otherwise your oven will smell like a refinery for a few weeks,
a MAP Gas torch works well here use your IR gun to gauge temps
Tom if your having fitment issues either you have the wrong parts or you damaged the race seat ,
in that case you may have to look for a used hub.
When done per the WSM the heated hub and frozen bearing race will just about drop in ./ And fall out.
IIRC heat the hub to 250 degrees not 350 and make sure all of the grease is out of the hub, otherwise your oven will smell like a refinery for a few weeks,
a MAP Gas torch works well here use your IR gun to gauge temps
10-30-2010, 06:36 PM
#42
Thanks Mrmerlin.
I printed out the WSM pages for doing the job, as well as a couple of Rennlist members write ups.
Bearings/races are part #s 999 059 089 01 & 999 059 090 00 and came from one of the main 928 suppliers. I believe they're the correct parts.
Maybe I did damage the race seats when taking the old races out. The WSM did say to heat the hub and mentioned the use of a drift was permissible. They came out pretty easily using the drift and so I didn't bother heating the hub before taking them out. Perhaps not heating the hub was a problem even if the races came out easy?
The wheel is back on the car with the new bearings/races installed and I went for a test drive locally and on the highway. Everything seemed OK. Time will tell.
The other side still needs to be done. I didn't do that side yet because the allen head on one of the two caliper bolts is stripped. Waiting on another bolt before I extract the stripped one and start that side.
For this next side, I'll heat the hub prior to taking those old races out.
I printed out the WSM pages for doing the job, as well as a couple of Rennlist members write ups.
Bearings/races are part #s 999 059 089 01 & 999 059 090 00 and came from one of the main 928 suppliers. I believe they're the correct parts.
Maybe I did damage the race seats when taking the old races out. The WSM did say to heat the hub and mentioned the use of a drift was permissible. They came out pretty easily using the drift and so I didn't bother heating the hub before taking them out. Perhaps not heating the hub was a problem even if the races came out easy?
The wheel is back on the car with the new bearings/races installed and I went for a test drive locally and on the highway. Everything seemed OK. Time will tell.
The other side still needs to be done. I didn't do that side yet because the allen head on one of the two caliper bolts is stripped. Waiting on another bolt before I extract the stripped one and start that side.
For this next side, I'll heat the hub prior to taking those old races out.
10-30-2010, 07:04 PM
#43
Drifting
If you have a mig its works well.
Heating the hub also works for removal.
You can also slit the race 1/2 way through with a torch which is the way its done in the shop, then split it with a chisel and punch it out (no time on flat rate to heat)
smooth any marks with emery cloth, wipe, spray and blow all grit out (very very important)
Grease and press it back in.
If you don't have a press then a hard brass punch and 2 lb hammer will work.
When it is seated the hammer blows sound different, solid and the hammer bounces lots
Brad
Heating the hub also works for removal.
You can also slit the race 1/2 way through with a torch which is the way its done in the shop, then split it with a chisel and punch it out (no time on flat rate to heat)
smooth any marks with emery cloth, wipe, spray and blow all grit out (very very important)
Grease and press it back in.
If you don't have a press then a hard brass punch and 2 lb hammer will work.
When it is seated the hammer blows sound different, solid and the hammer bounces lots
Brad
10-30-2010, 07:14 PM
#44
Team Owner
Brad thats not a procedure I would do on a 928............
you might get away with that on a Chevy or a Euclid though
you might get away with that on a Chevy or a Euclid though
10-31-2010, 03:27 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Having tried a lot of wheel bearing grease, especially redline, amsoil and the stuff you find at the local auto parts store. the redline and amsoil just seem to liquify especially in racing conditions. completely uselsess. the lithium, moly based greases seem to stick to the bearings better and dont turn to water.
I found the basic high temp wheel bearing grease you get at the auto parts store will work great.
I found the basic high temp wheel bearing grease you get at the auto parts store will work great.
Fill the bearing with grease, but avoid packing the hub itself full of grease. The grease expandsandcontracts with heat, and a full hub will push grease past the seal as it heats, and will suck in water when the hot hub gets a splash. The cone section holds plenty of grease for the rollers when packed correctly. Centrifugal force keeps the cone full. You do want to fill the gap between the inner cone and the seal, and you may decide to add some to the dust cap but it isn't really necessaary or even desirable.
For those playing along at home, the Mobil-1 synthetic grease is great for wheel bearings, as is the Redline CV-1. They are the same color as the original too. Long-fiber "wheel bearing grease" is better for ball bearings than rollers. Lots of opinions on greases floating around.
Adjust the bearings looser rather than tighter. Seat the assembly with a snug pull on the adjusting nuts. Then back them off. Tighten just with finger pressure and you'll be real close. The screwdriver wiggle on the washer is still a valid test, giving you an idea about how little torque is needed. Think inch-pounds.
Check the spindle, particularly the bottom of the spindle where the inner bearing rides. If there's wear or galling there, hunt down a new set of spindles. You'll never be able to keep the bearings adjusted correctly with a worn spindle. The wheel will rock slightly, and you'll be tightenning the adjustment nut trying to take out the play. But you can't, and you'll eat the new bearings when they are too tight. Then the inner bearing will get noisy and will wear the spindle even more.
For those playing along at home, the Mobil-1 synthetic grease is great for wheel bearings, as is the Redline CV-1. They are the same color as the original too. Long-fiber "wheel bearing grease" is better for ball bearings than rollers. Lots of opinions on greases floating around.
Adjust the bearings looser rather than tighter. Seat the assembly with a snug pull on the adjusting nuts. Then back them off. Tighten just with finger pressure and you'll be real close. The screwdriver wiggle on the washer is still a valid test, giving you an idea about how little torque is needed. Think inch-pounds.
Check the spindle, particularly the bottom of the spindle where the inner bearing rides. If there's wear or galling there, hunt down a new set of spindles. You'll never be able to keep the bearings adjusted correctly with a worn spindle. The wheel will rock slightly, and you'll be tightenning the adjustment nut trying to take out the play. But you can't, and you'll eat the new bearings when they are too tight. Then the inner bearing will get noisy and will wear the spindle even more.