928 new body styling - sneak preview
08-10-2004, 08:32 PM
#93
Instructor
Gav,
I think it looks good. Every other kit I've seen is terrible, gaudy. But, I think you've incorporated many of the newer Porsche elements well. I particularly like the vents behind the rear wheels.
I don't have much of an opinion on the headlights other than new headlights and tail lights suggest this kit will cost more than I'll be able to afford.
Keep up the good work!!
I think it looks good. Every other kit I've seen is terrible, gaudy. But, I think you've incorporated many of the newer Porsche elements well. I particularly like the vents behind the rear wheels.
I don't have much of an opinion on the headlights other than new headlights and tail lights suggest this kit will cost more than I'll be able to afford.
Keep up the good work!!
08-10-2004, 09:11 PM
#94
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The cost is my concern as well.
Jacquemond has the concept that if you upgrade the look of the 928, it will be worth as much as another exotic.
So the price of converting your car, is much cheaper than buying a Ferarri, etc...
But most 928 owners are not in that category of enthusiast.
Especially not the owners of the early cars.
Early cars are the ones most in need of exterior upgrades, in order not to look dated.
And yet most owners of an early 928 paid under $10K for it.
That says something about the income level of those owners.
(With some exceptions, of those who just like that older style...)
And those with the income to buy a GTS, or a nice s4, tend to have a car that already looks pretty new.
The 928s4 can still be confused for a new car, with a nice paint job, wax, etc...
So many of the s4 owners have zero interest in chopping up their cars, and putting a body kit on them.
My guess is that this kit will fall into the same trap that Jacquemond fell into.
The people with the money to spend on an expensive kit, will not want to modify their cars.
And the ones who want to modify their older cars, will not be able to rationalize the price of the kit.
No matter how much income I have, I still have a problem spending more than the car is worth,
on a modification. Be it a body kit, supercharger, etc. It just seems illogical to spend $10K on your
$10K car. It's not like the car suddenly becomes worth $20K because of the kit. It is still only
worth $5-10K. So I suspect that this venture will have an equally hard time selling any large
number of kits. But the concept is great. I just wish someone at one of the big body kit
manufacturers would just make a cheap kit to upgrade the 928's looks. Something in
a price range that is reasonable. Maybe using tail-lights and fog lights from some
cheap import source or something, so the overall price of the whole upgrade is
around $2K. All the older cars need, is new tail-lights, and a new front bumper
section. Sell new front and rear bumpers, with modern curves, and modern lighting.
Leave the headlights alone. And keep the lines of the car intact. Just new driving
lights, turn signals, and tail-lights, that look modern...
Jacquemond has the concept that if you upgrade the look of the 928, it will be worth as much as another exotic.
So the price of converting your car, is much cheaper than buying a Ferarri, etc...
But most 928 owners are not in that category of enthusiast.
Especially not the owners of the early cars.
Early cars are the ones most in need of exterior upgrades, in order not to look dated.
And yet most owners of an early 928 paid under $10K for it.
That says something about the income level of those owners.
(With some exceptions, of those who just like that older style...)
And those with the income to buy a GTS, or a nice s4, tend to have a car that already looks pretty new.
The 928s4 can still be confused for a new car, with a nice paint job, wax, etc...
So many of the s4 owners have zero interest in chopping up their cars, and putting a body kit on them.
My guess is that this kit will fall into the same trap that Jacquemond fell into.
The people with the money to spend on an expensive kit, will not want to modify their cars.
And the ones who want to modify their older cars, will not be able to rationalize the price of the kit.
No matter how much income I have, I still have a problem spending more than the car is worth,
on a modification. Be it a body kit, supercharger, etc. It just seems illogical to spend $10K on your
$10K car. It's not like the car suddenly becomes worth $20K because of the kit. It is still only
worth $5-10K. So I suspect that this venture will have an equally hard time selling any large
number of kits. But the concept is great. I just wish someone at one of the big body kit
manufacturers would just make a cheap kit to upgrade the 928's looks. Something in
a price range that is reasonable. Maybe using tail-lights and fog lights from some
cheap import source or something, so the overall price of the whole upgrade is
around $2K. All the older cars need, is new tail-lights, and a new front bumper
section. Sell new front and rear bumpers, with modern curves, and modern lighting.
Leave the headlights alone. And keep the lines of the car intact. Just new driving
lights, turn signals, and tail-lights, that look modern...
08-11-2004, 07:41 AM
#95
Hi Gav thanks for putting so much effort in, I really feel for you as I know how difficult it can be to custom make parts. I think in regard to what you are trying to do it is an exceptionally difficult undertaking. I have to echo BC davis's view about the commercial viablity of the project. There just isn't anybody out there to buy such a kit. Even if the car looked as it just rolled off a Stutgart production line you would have great difficulty in selling one kit. Remember just the cost of paintwork and lets talk concourse quality, will set you back about 12k. Your kit would be even more expensive to paint than that. Add the cost of a kit and the complications of insurance and I frankly get a headache thinking about it.
I would have liked to have seen a underbody kit like the 550 Marennelo has, very descreet but funtional. The otherthing is as BC says the people who own the 928 basically don't have any money, I know I have spent more than most and now I'm broke too! Even when more project is finished and my car will be one of the most powerful and more importantly fast around a racetrack 928s in the world capable of matching it with worlds best supercars, I'd be lucky to get 30k for it. The engine will cost me more than that. All money down the drain except for the enjoyment it will hopefully bring.
Please cut your losses now, maybe you can write them off against your tax, don't spend anymore money on it, I fear you're digging yourself into a hole and this will become very stressful. You can take it from somebody who has been ther done that, it is not very nice. I know it will be hard to walk away, but sooner the better.
I wish you the very best.
Greg
I would have liked to have seen a underbody kit like the 550 Marennelo has, very descreet but funtional. The otherthing is as BC says the people who own the 928 basically don't have any money, I know I have spent more than most and now I'm broke too! Even when more project is finished and my car will be one of the most powerful and more importantly fast around a racetrack 928s in the world capable of matching it with worlds best supercars, I'd be lucky to get 30k for it. The engine will cost me more than that. All money down the drain except for the enjoyment it will hopefully bring.
Please cut your losses now, maybe you can write them off against your tax, don't spend anymore money on it, I fear you're digging yourself into a hole and this will become very stressful. You can take it from somebody who has been ther done that, it is not very nice. I know it will be hard to walk away, but sooner the better.
I wish you the very best.
Greg
08-11-2004, 11:47 AM
#97
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I think your 'new' 928 looks great Gav. Just remember you can't please everyone, so don't worry too much about all the negative comments like:..."I don't think this will ever sell..." or "quit while youre ahead..." blah blah blah. Where would Microsoft be now if Bill had listened to all the negative comments. I say..."GO FOR IT". Give it your best shot...I think they will all be queueing to buy one of your cars. Just remember all you guys out there who say the front seems too big........the 928 has a front mounted motor as opposed to all other Porsches. Also I think a double wing at the back will be great. This car is going to be a show stopper...I cant wait to get mine.
08-11-2004, 12:16 PM
#98
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by vaughn o
..so don't worry too much about all the negative comments like:..."I don't think this will ever sell..." or "quit while youre ahead..." blah blah blah.
..I think they will all be queueing to buy one of your cars.
This car is going to be a show stopper...I cant wait to get mine.
..I think they will all be queueing to buy one of your cars.
This car is going to be a show stopper...I cant wait to get mine.
08-11-2004, 12:18 PM
#99
Developer
My understanding is that the S5 isn't supposed to be a kit they ship to you and install it your self - I am told it is supposed to be more like those guys iin Canada that were doing the Spyder/Cabriolet conversions for $40,000 a few years back. You took them your 928 and $40,000, and you came to get it a month later and its now a finished Cabriolet. So, he is less interested in selling kits at the moment than signing up Dealerships where this work can be done.
08-11-2004, 02:25 PM
#100
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How many of those cars have they sold?
I know a handful of these kind of cars will sell, for sure...
And I am glad they are doing the project.
It may or may not be a good business venture.
I just wish someone would at least *try* to make a cheap and simple upgrade for the old 928s.
It could be one of those things, that when someone breaks their front spoiler, or needs a new
front or rear clip, that rather than replace it with a used one, or a new one, they will realistically
consider using a fiberglass replacement, since it will be of a similar price. Yes, they do sell
fiberglass versions of the front and rear in the stock look. But if they also improved the
look of the car, I think in addition to collision repairs, people would just want to do the
upgrade, because they will see more and more 928s with the new parts, and they will
actually like the way they look. But again, that requires a clean and simple design that
fits with the lines of the car...
I know a handful of these kind of cars will sell, for sure...
And I am glad they are doing the project.
It may or may not be a good business venture.
I just wish someone would at least *try* to make a cheap and simple upgrade for the old 928s.
It could be one of those things, that when someone breaks their front spoiler, or needs a new
front or rear clip, that rather than replace it with a used one, or a new one, they will realistically
consider using a fiberglass replacement, since it will be of a similar price. Yes, they do sell
fiberglass versions of the front and rear in the stock look. But if they also improved the
look of the car, I think in addition to collision repairs, people would just want to do the
upgrade, because they will see more and more 928s with the new parts, and they will
actually like the way they look. But again, that requires a clean and simple design that
fits with the lines of the car...
08-11-2004, 02:30 PM
#101
928 Collector
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I'm inclined to be *very* supportive of any new vendor and package for the 928. Gav is offering a very comprehensive package and I love the fact that he is doing that. This is exactly why I have done my very best to give him the best feedback I can.
GO GAV.
GO GAV.
08-11-2004, 03:55 PM
#102
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I have very few people ask me about " body kits " but in all fairness I do not advertise or sell body kits . It is my opinion that there is a very small market for such a kit in the United states . Just the cost of fitting the bodywork , painting and new wheels is far more than many people seem inclined to spend . That leaves little left to pay for the kit . The " Moderne Spyder " manufacturing has after several years and expenses in the six figures produced only handful of cars . A I R , American International Racing has for many years had molds for "widebody" and S-4 updates including the recently mentioned "Testa rosa " . Slant nose fender conversions , bigger wings , boxed rockers , carbon fiber hoods are all available from AIR . Several people have already commented that part of the attraction of the 928 is that for a few thousand dollars you can own a Porsche , The top of the line , the flagship....." and it has a V-8 engine " . Most of the people I talk with have told me they fell in love the first time they SAW ONE ; not drove one or rode in one but saw one ! I have had many customers buy a 928 which does not run and drag it home never having driven a 928 , some never do 
. That to me indicates that 928 owners LIKE the way it looks . I at times also believe that some of the negative comments about the 911 series may have more to do with rationalizing the purchase of a 928 than any real deficiencies of the 911 especially when those commenting have never owned a 911 . So after much verbiage , the attempt to make a 928 look like a 911/996/Boxster/Cheyenne may be the ultimate "rationalization" . The 928 never looked like a "Porsche" never looked like a 911 so why would an " UPDATED " 928 suddenly morph into a 911 wantabe .....OH right a TWIN TURBO 911 is very, very expensive . I do recognize how much effort it takes to make body parts and get both sides to be the same but mirror images of each other . It is just my opinion that similar to the high performance 928 parts business , the body kit business is a very limited market and it seems to require high per unit prices to attempt to amortize the R and D expenses and makes a rather poor business plan . As I mentioned , I liked the way the rear of your prototype car looks but I like the way 911s look .
. That to me indicates that 928 owners LIKE the way it looks . I at times also believe that some of the negative comments about the 911 series may have more to do with rationalizing the purchase of a 928 than any real deficiencies of the 911 especially when those commenting have never owned a 911 . So after much verbiage , the attempt to make a 928 look like a 911/996/Boxster/Cheyenne may be the ultimate "rationalization" . The 928 never looked like a "Porsche" never looked like a 911 so why would an " UPDATED " 928 suddenly morph into a 911 wantabe .....OH right a TWIN TURBO 911 is very, very expensive . I do recognize how much effort it takes to make body parts and get both sides to be the same but mirror images of each other . It is just my opinion that similar to the high performance 928 parts business , the body kit business is a very limited market and it seems to require high per unit prices to attempt to amortize the R and D expenses and makes a rather poor business plan . As I mentioned , I liked the way the rear of your prototype car looks but I like the way 911s look .
08-11-2004, 05:07 PM
#103
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by heinrich
I'm inclined to be *very* supportive of any new vendor and package for the 928.
Unfortunately for vendors everywhere, talk is *CHEAP*. It's also empty, and it's extremely easy to do. Not only that, it does absolutely nothing to help pay any of the bills; *imagine that*!
It's good to *tell* us about your level of support, but it would be a lot more convincing if you would *show* 'Gav' your level of support by putting your money where your mouth is.
BTW, don't forget to post pics when your car is done!
08-11-2004, 05:27 PM
#104
928 Collector
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What a nasty fellow you are.
You personally have in the past (I'd be very happy to repost it here) said that to you, the 928 looks like a Pinto, that it is dog-slow and that you think the only way a 928 is ever not a pig, is with a supercharger.
I am supportive of Gav's work. I LOVE Porsche 928's ... as the Factory made them. You and I are nothing alike. Nothing. I thank God for that.
Heinrich
You personally have in the past (I'd be very happy to repost it here) said that to you, the 928 looks like a Pinto, that it is dog-slow and that you think the only way a 928 is ever not a pig, is with a supercharger.
I am supportive of Gav's work. I LOVE Porsche 928's ... as the Factory made them. You and I are nothing alike. Nothing. I thank God for that.
Heinrich
Originally Posted by Lagavulin
Since you are *so* supportive, then I assume you'll be the first in line with money-in-hand since that would be considered *real* support; anything short of that is just talk...
Unfortunately for vendors everywhere, talk is *CHEAP*. It's also empty, and it's extremely easy to do. Not only that, it does absolutely nothing to help pay any of the bills; *imagine that*!
It's good to *tell* us about your level of support, but it would be a lot more convincing if you would *show* 'Gav' your level of support by putting your money where your mouth is.
BTW, don't forget to post pics when your car is done!
Unfortunately for vendors everywhere, talk is *CHEAP*. It's also empty, and it's extremely easy to do. Not only that, it does absolutely nothing to help pay any of the bills; *imagine that*!
It's good to *tell* us about your level of support, but it would be a lot more convincing if you would *show* 'Gav' your level of support by putting your money where your mouth is.
BTW, don't forget to post pics when your car is done!
08-11-2004, 05:35 PM
#105
928 Collector
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07-15-2004, 10:25 PM #24
Lagavulin
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Quote:
Originally posted by heinrich
"Btw how many 928's have you owned? Interesting how you are so quick to put down any 928 that is not your own supercharged car. "
2.
My 928's are forefront in my mind whenever I have something to say regarding '928's in general', for better or worse, including how SLOW they are NA. To me, they are PAINFULLY SLOW, and is the reason why I supercharged my engine. I'm sure most don't mind it's pokey-ness, and therefore, is not an issue with them, and are probably more concerned about cup holders. Different strokes for different folks.
BTW, both my 928's resemble an AMC Pacer, Mazda RX7, and a Ford Taurus station wagaon, yet I still like the car.
__________________
87 5-Speed, Black/Can Can: 513 rwhp
MURF928 32v SuperShark #2 www.MURF928.com
Dyno Threads: 513 rwhp at 11 psi, 492 rwhp at 11 psi
Raced a Yamaha YZF-R1 Superbike
18" HRE 540R's: 9.5 x 68mm, 10.5 x 59mm; Sumitomo HRZ II's: 265 x 35, 285 x 35
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Lagavulin
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Quote:
Originally posted by heinrich
"Btw how many 928's have you owned? Interesting how you are so quick to put down any 928 that is not your own supercharged car. "
2.
My 928's are forefront in my mind whenever I have something to say regarding '928's in general', for better or worse, including how SLOW they are NA. To me, they are PAINFULLY SLOW, and is the reason why I supercharged my engine. I'm sure most don't mind it's pokey-ness, and therefore, is not an issue with them, and are probably more concerned about cup holders. Different strokes for different folks.
BTW, both my 928's resemble an AMC Pacer, Mazda RX7, and a Ford Taurus station wagaon, yet I still like the car.
__________________
87 5-Speed, Black/Can Can: 513 rwhp
MURF928 32v SuperShark #2 www.MURF928.com
Dyno Threads: 513 rwhp at 11 psi, 492 rwhp at 11 psi
Raced a Yamaha YZF-R1 Superbike
18" HRE 540R's: 9.5 x 68mm, 10.5 x 59mm; Sumitomo HRZ II's: 265 x 35, 285 x 35
96 993 Carrera 6-Speed, Black-Metallic/Red
Cargraphic 18" Wheels, Bridgestone SO3's
Fabspeed MaxFlo's