Electric 356
07-25-2024, 11:15 AM
#16
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Here is Porsche's take on the future of solid state batteries.
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2023...ies-33320.html
One takeaway is that we won't see SSBs in Porsche cars before 2027. That's one reason Sue and I are thinking hybrid. We want the long trip ease and charge at home ability today. We feel Li-ion batteries are a stopgap, and we'd rather wait.
One thing for certain about EVs is that some of the issues will be different.
I have a neighbor that went with an extensive solar roof install with battery backup. He drives a Rivian. He's happy living off the grid. Recently, we had one of those typical summer storms that knocked out the neighborhood electrical grid overnight. The Appalachians are covered with trees and you can't run wires under rock, so outages here happen often and can be long. I went down to the local convenience store to get a coffee and use their WiFi to check in with work. I wound up standing behind my neighbor in the line for the register. I said "What brings you here? Aren't you full solar?" He said "Well, the power went down after dark. The Rivian drained my house batteries charging back up. At least I had the power to get down here for coffee..."
New tech, new problems!
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2023...ies-33320.html
One takeaway is that we won't see SSBs in Porsche cars before 2027. That's one reason Sue and I are thinking hybrid. We want the long trip ease and charge at home ability today. We feel Li-ion batteries are a stopgap, and we'd rather wait.
One thing for certain about EVs is that some of the issues will be different.
I have a neighbor that went with an extensive solar roof install with battery backup. He drives a Rivian. He's happy living off the grid. Recently, we had one of those typical summer storms that knocked out the neighborhood electrical grid overnight. The Appalachians are covered with trees and you can't run wires under rock, so outages here happen often and can be long. I went down to the local convenience store to get a coffee and use their WiFi to check in with work. I wound up standing behind my neighbor in the line for the register. I said "What brings you here? Aren't you full solar?" He said "Well, the power went down after dark. The Rivian drained my house batteries charging back up. At least I had the power to get down here for coffee..."
New tech, new problems!
07-25-2024, 11:52 AM
#17
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I have a neighbor that went with an extensive solar roof install with battery backup. He drives a Rivian. He's happy living off the grid. Recently, we had one of those typical summer storms that knocked out the neighborhood electrical grid overnight. The Appalachians are covered with trees and you can't run wires under rock, so outages here happen often and can be long. I went down to the local convenience store to get a coffee and use their WiFi to check in with work. I wound up standing behind my neighbor in the line for the register. I said "What brings you here? Aren't you full solar?" He said "Well, the power went down after dark. The Rivian drained my house batteries charging back up. At least I had the power to get down here for coffee..."
New tech, new problems!
New tech, new problems!
I see it on social media all the time when there's a disaster: "I bet all those EV owners wish they had gas vehicles now!!" They seem to forget it's at least possible (granted not always practical) to charge up EV's in various ways when the grid is down. Meanwhile gas pumps do not work without electricity, those tanks can run dry in an extended outage leaving you with zero ways to power an ICE vehicle. That is unless you have a mini refinery and a stash of oil or the ability to make your own ethanol.
It's sad that so much of the arguments are deeply fueled by unnecessary political tribalism.
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Adk46 (07-31-2024)
07-25-2024, 12:13 PM
#18
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How long is a battery storage solution good for and what is the cost?
For example, I put UPS systems in my house for all my TVs that have hard drive storage systems and on all my computers because the on/off/on/off that would occur right before a power outage, which fried 2 of my Tivo hard drive storage devices on 2 separate occasions. Giving them continuous power until I could shut them down properly prevented the failures, and it was great for a couple years. However, it wasn't long before the reserve capacity from these devises that used to show 118-120 minutes of run time on the display when they were automatically enabled during a power outage , dropped to a much lower number, and now all 4 of them have failed to the point that they would immediately turn off as soon as the power went out. One of them now won't even turn on when the power is on to it.
Yes, the battery technology in these is very different than what's in EVs, but they're still batteries, and all batteries at some point will lose charge and reserve capacity, whereas an ICE will run as long as you put gas in it.
Technology and infrastructure will have to make huge strides before I'd ever consider electric as a vehicle platform even with all my ICE vehicles to back it up. Even renting a Tesla for a 2 day business trip gives me range anxiety as I watch the charge level go from the 80% I picked it up at down to 20% over 2 days of hardly any driving (maybe 60 miles), and not wanting to deal with having to find a charging station to deal with it.
I'm hanging my hopes on synthetic gasoline - https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2023...ums-31632.html
For example, I put UPS systems in my house for all my TVs that have hard drive storage systems and on all my computers because the on/off/on/off that would occur right before a power outage, which fried 2 of my Tivo hard drive storage devices on 2 separate occasions. Giving them continuous power until I could shut them down properly prevented the failures, and it was great for a couple years. However, it wasn't long before the reserve capacity from these devises that used to show 118-120 minutes of run time on the display when they were automatically enabled during a power outage , dropped to a much lower number, and now all 4 of them have failed to the point that they would immediately turn off as soon as the power went out. One of them now won't even turn on when the power is on to it.
Yes, the battery technology in these is very different than what's in EVs, but they're still batteries, and all batteries at some point will lose charge and reserve capacity, whereas an ICE will run as long as you put gas in it.
Technology and infrastructure will have to make huge strides before I'd ever consider electric as a vehicle platform even with all my ICE vehicles to back it up. Even renting a Tesla for a 2 day business trip gives me range anxiety as I watch the charge level go from the 80% I picked it up at down to 20% over 2 days of hardly any driving (maybe 60 miles), and not wanting to deal with having to find a charging station to deal with it.
I'm hanging my hopes on synthetic gasoline - https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2023...ums-31632.html
07-25-2024, 12:34 PM
#19
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For example, I put UPS systems in my house for all my TVs that have hard drive storage systems and on all my computers because the on/off/on/off that would occur right before a power outage, which fried 2 of my Tivo hard drive storage devices on 2 separate occasions. Giving them continuous power until I could shut them down properly prevented the failures, and it was great for a couple years. However, it wasn't long before the reserve capacity from these devises that used to show 118-120 minutes of run time on the display when they were automatically enabled during a power outage , dropped to a much lower number, and now all 4 of them have failed to the point that they would immediately turn off as soon as the power went out. One of them now won't even turn on when the power is on to it.
https://www.apc.com/us/en/product/SM...tslot-avr-lcd/
Going from very fuzzy memory here, but the better units run 100% off battery power for the output and use the incoming AC to keep the batteries charged. Most (all) consumer level units run off straight AC and the battery "kicks on" as needed. I have no idea how that affects the overall battery life, just a thought.
The server farms I used to oversee the UPS's were constantly monitored by the servers or some other computer and I couldn't give an exact time frame, we didn't' replace batteries all that often. I'm guessing 5-6 years on average.
The battery tech in those things hasn't changed for as long as I can remember. Although I haven't kept up with that kind of stuff in 4-5 years, previous to that we were still buying the same batteries as we were back in the 90's.
07-25-2024, 01:12 PM
#20
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I don't know what my neighbor has for a battery backup. Next time I see him, I'll ask. We are pretty remote here, and that does create some issues. I have a UPS that I use to power my cell phone booster long enough to potentially call the power company, but that's it. My UPS is a Tripp Lite, and like Petza mentioned, has battery tech that is decades old. I replace the battery about once every two years. That's cheaper than buying a new sexy lithium driven unit. My laptops don't need it. We normally get cell access from a Verizon supplied extender (we are not on the coverage map), but the internet usually dies when neighborhood power does, so no phone from WiFi then. The Starlink coverage app tells me I'm out of luck with them unless I cut down a lot of mature trees, and I won't do that. Same for solar at my house, My solar/Rivian neighbor has more open sky.
I'm willing to bet my neighbor already has a fix for the Rivian drain issue, likely involving dropping that circuit if the house batteries are low. He has an ICE vehicle too, so keeping a full charge on his truck is not a priority. It was just a surprise.
I'm willing to bet my neighbor already has a fix for the Rivian drain issue, likely involving dropping that circuit if the house batteries are low. He has an ICE vehicle too, so keeping a full charge on his truck is not a priority. It was just a surprise.
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Jon B. (07-25-2024)
07-25-2024, 01:41 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
I don't know what my neighbor has for a battery backup. Next time I see him, I'll ask. We are pretty remote here, and that does create some issues. I have a UPS that I use to power my cell phone booster long enough to potentially call the power company, but that's it. My UPS is a Tripp Lite, and like Petza mentioned, has battery tech that is decades old. I replace the battery about once every two years. That's cheaper than buying a new sexy lithium driven unit. My laptops don't need it. We normally get cell access from a Verizon supplied extender (we are not on the coverage map), but the internet usually dies when neighborhood power does, so no phone from WiFi then. The Starlink coverage app tells me I'm out of luck with them unless I cut down a lot of mature trees, and I won't do that. Same for solar at my house, My solar/Rivian neighbor has more open sky.
I'm willing to bet my neighbor already has a fix for the Rivian drain issue, likely involving dropping that circuit if the house batteries are low. He has an ICE vehicle too, so keeping a full charge on his truck is not a priority. It was just a surprise.
I'm willing to bet my neighbor already has a fix for the Rivian drain issue, likely involving dropping that circuit if the house batteries are low. He has an ICE vehicle too, so keeping a full charge on his truck is not a priority. It was just a surprise.
07-25-2024, 02:48 PM
#22
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I'm not really in the Asheville area. It may be only 30 miles away, but in the mountains that may as well be the other side of the moon. Hendersonville is 22 miles and about 1500' lower altitude than here, with perfectly good infrastructure including high speed internet. The same is true of Brevard, Waynesville, and a host of other small towns, and of course Asheville too. You could not pay me enough to live in a city or the 'burbs again (I lived in RTP for a while), but there is good connectivity around this area if you need it, and decent town/city/suburban life as well.
My career 2.0 BTW, is working for a major aerospace corporation based in Huntsville. I work from home, something many companies would not have considered before Covid. When I need to make an occasional appearance I find that I can drive my 981S to Huntsville in about 6 hours, which is just a bit faster than flying commercial there from Asheville via Charlotte. I SO love my cars. My driving route goes though the Nantahala and Cherokee national forests, and it's lovely.
My career 2.0 BTW, is working for a major aerospace corporation based in Huntsville. I work from home, something many companies would not have considered before Covid. When I need to make an occasional appearance I find that I can drive my 981S to Huntsville in about 6 hours, which is just a bit faster than flying commercial there from Asheville via Charlotte. I SO love my cars. My driving route goes though the Nantahala and Cherokee national forests, and it's lovely.
07-25-2024, 03:12 PM
#23
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Well, just as an example to put things in perspective, an ICE powered Jaguar F-Pace of similar performance to an I-Pace EV is approx. 75kg lighter, which in cars of over 2 tons is basically FA.
There are also conversions of some cars that have turned out lighter than the original with ICE power.
I'm not trying to suggest current EVs are lighter than ICE. In general there is some additional weight currently, but with battery energy density on the rise, this will come down. The problem in the meantime is the disinformation being promulgated on the 'Net and in the media that EVs are SO much heavier. Any comparisons made are always between dissimilar cars and conveniently ignore that larger cars always weigh more and that newer cars are all getting heavier and more complicated, even ICE powered ones.
The cars I chose for comparison above are as close as I can think of. Although actually different bodies, they are extremely similar looking and of very similar size, but one is fully EV and the other pure ICE. Add 100L of petrol and the the weight will be almost the same.
This is not to say I don't understand the lure of the ICE I have grown up with and indeed still have several V8 versions of those.
All I'm saying is that an EV doesn't have to be massively heavier than an ICE equivalent and any current disparity will in a few years start to invert as battery technology moves from the current approx. 250Wh/kg to 500 and even 700 Wh/kg - both having been demonstrated in the lab and I seem to recall CATL saying 500 Wh/kg in production within the year. The whole industry will not of course switch to these newer better batteries overnight as they will be more expensive initially, but that will change over time.
So there's a very good chance that in the future there will be EVs that are not only quicker than any ICE equivalent, but also no heavier and with enough range to satisfy all.
There are also conversions of some cars that have turned out lighter than the original with ICE power.
I'm not trying to suggest current EVs are lighter than ICE. In general there is some additional weight currently, but with battery energy density on the rise, this will come down. The problem in the meantime is the disinformation being promulgated on the 'Net and in the media that EVs are SO much heavier. Any comparisons made are always between dissimilar cars and conveniently ignore that larger cars always weigh more and that newer cars are all getting heavier and more complicated, even ICE powered ones.
The cars I chose for comparison above are as close as I can think of. Although actually different bodies, they are extremely similar looking and of very similar size, but one is fully EV and the other pure ICE. Add 100L of petrol and the the weight will be almost the same.
This is not to say I don't understand the lure of the ICE I have grown up with and indeed still have several V8 versions of those.
All I'm saying is that an EV doesn't have to be massively heavier than an ICE equivalent and any current disparity will in a few years start to invert as battery technology moves from the current approx. 250Wh/kg to 500 and even 700 Wh/kg - both having been demonstrated in the lab and I seem to recall CATL saying 500 Wh/kg in production within the year. The whole industry will not of course switch to these newer better batteries overnight as they will be more expensive initially, but that will change over time.
So there's a very good chance that in the future there will be EVs that are not only quicker than any ICE equivalent, but also no heavier and with enough range to satisfy all.
Higher power density ='s lower overall weight!
07-25-2024, 06:02 PM
#24
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@hacker-pschorr : slightly off topic but I got to hoon around a little bit recently at the Porsche Experience Center in LA and one of the cars I drove was the Cayman GTS 4.0. I still can't get the sound of that engine (and the things the PDK let the engine do) out of my head. Driving that car was immensely great and the sounds it made were a HUGE part of it.
Now I'm in the midst of trying to figure out how to get a Macan or Panamera PDK into my S4 (only slightly kidding, but I love the idea and apart from a whole bunch of work and fabrication, does not seem crazy impossible), to see about marrying that brute of a V8 with the clean shifting through gears that the PDK provides. Magic!
Cheers
Now I'm in the midst of trying to figure out how to get a Macan or Panamera PDK into my S4 (only slightly kidding, but I love the idea and apart from a whole bunch of work and fabrication, does not seem crazy impossible), to see about marrying that brute of a V8 with the clean shifting through gears that the PDK provides. Magic!
Cheers
07-26-2024, 12:40 PM
#25
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I should know better than to suggest technology will never produce a significantly lighter EV. I think it's safe to say we'll never see an EV with ICE range and uber light in say a Miata. Then again, maybe we will.
My skepticism lies with market demand since there really isn't a market for super light cars anymore. HP sells, light and nimble doesn't. The new ZR1 is 4,000lbs for f*ck sake.
I found an interesting list of cars for sale in 2019-2020 in the USA that weigh under 3,000lbs. 36 cars, fast forward to 2024 it's 21 and only 4 of those would I consider enthusiast cars.
So yea, who knows. If this EV future goes as far as we are fearing, Mazda is probably the only one who would spend the $$$ to figure out a way to make an EV Miata with livable DD range and still be under 2,500lbs.
Other than weight, the lack of noise is my only other complaint with EV's. Imagine going to an NHRA event with nothing but EV's
My skepticism lies with market demand since there really isn't a market for super light cars anymore. HP sells, light and nimble doesn't. The new ZR1 is 4,000lbs for f*ck sake.
I found an interesting list of cars for sale in 2019-2020 in the USA that weigh under 3,000lbs. 36 cars, fast forward to 2024 it's 21 and only 4 of those would I consider enthusiast cars.
So yea, who knows. If this EV future goes as far as we are fearing, Mazda is probably the only one who would spend the $$$ to figure out a way to make an EV Miata with livable DD range and still be under 2,500lbs.
@hacker-pschorr : slightly off topic but I got to hoon around a little bit recently at the Porsche Experience Center in LA and one of the cars I drove was the Cayman GTS 4.0. I still can't get the sound of that engine (and the things the PDK let the engine do) out of my head. Driving that car was immensely great and the sounds it made were a HUGE part of it.
Other than weight, the lack of noise is my only other complaint with EV's. Imagine going to an NHRA event with nothing but EV's
07-26-2024, 01:11 PM
#26
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We've already seen how Formula-E was received and the weird stuff they had to do to try and make it interesting.
Lotus would be the other company that could make a lighter EV, but if it has the same reliability as previous Lotus cars, you'd want the Mazda anyway.
Lotus would be the other company that could make a lighter EV, but if it has the same reliability as previous Lotus cars, you'd want the Mazda anyway.
07-31-2024, 05:57 PM
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Pondering the weight subject:
I've gotten a firm sense, from owning various cars, that the way a car feels — light or heavy — depends on a number of factors in addition to weight. A car with a big steering wheel will tend to feel heavy. A car with a quick steering ratio will feel light. A car with a floaty suspension will feel heavy.
I have, for example, a Tesla Model 3 and a Tesla Model S. Never mind the propulsion system - doesn't matter here. The 3 feels a lot sportier (lighter?) than the S. The S is a larger car, but weighs the same (aluminum body); it really felt heavy with the original too-large yoke (the yoke itself is not sporty, just stupid). The 3 feels lighter than my 928, despite being about 900 lbs heavier. Compared to the 928, it has a smaller steering wheel, a quicker ratio and stiffer suspension. I'm not making a performance comparison, just "feeling" - a psychological thing. In a blind test, drivers would probably guess they weigh about the same.
Aside: my Bugeye Sprite weighs only 1400 lbs, has a tiny steering wheel, and a crazy quick steering ratio. In a blind test, a driver would feel greatly imperiled. And he would be.
But I'm mostly puzzled about this "feeling" business. I bring it up because I think EV's being heavy isn't as bad as you might think. Many reviewers say the same, which I'm sure most people dismiss as B.S.
I've gotten a firm sense, from owning various cars, that the way a car feels — light or heavy — depends on a number of factors in addition to weight. A car with a big steering wheel will tend to feel heavy. A car with a quick steering ratio will feel light. A car with a floaty suspension will feel heavy.
I have, for example, a Tesla Model 3 and a Tesla Model S. Never mind the propulsion system - doesn't matter here. The 3 feels a lot sportier (lighter?) than the S. The S is a larger car, but weighs the same (aluminum body); it really felt heavy with the original too-large yoke (the yoke itself is not sporty, just stupid). The 3 feels lighter than my 928, despite being about 900 lbs heavier. Compared to the 928, it has a smaller steering wheel, a quicker ratio and stiffer suspension. I'm not making a performance comparison, just "feeling" - a psychological thing. In a blind test, drivers would probably guess they weigh about the same.
Aside: my Bugeye Sprite weighs only 1400 lbs, has a tiny steering wheel, and a crazy quick steering ratio. In a blind test, a driver would feel greatly imperiled. And he would be.
But I'm mostly puzzled about this "feeling" business. I bring it up because I think EV's being heavy isn't as bad as you might think. Many reviewers say the same, which I'm sure most people dismiss as B.S.
08-01-2024, 05:30 AM
#28
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I know exactly what you mean and it is something I have often pondered also. I think a lot of the feeling of weight is as simple as how light is the steering feel and other controls.
I now have a Jaguar I-Pace, replacing a BMW X5. They are very similar sized cars, with the I-Pace being about 100 kg heavier. That's about 5% so not going to be outstandingly obvious, but which one feels a LOT lighter to drive? The heavier I-Pace.
The older X5s are known to have less steering assistance than later ones. A decision made by BMW at the time. It's not a problem at all, but the X5 is noticeably heavier steering than other similar and/or later cars. The I-Pace however has much lighter steering, which I prefer, although there are many who will say they want it heavier (hence BMW's decision). Personal opinions aside, the I-Pace 'feels' a much lighter car to drive. It's not just the steering though. The way it tracks through corners and rides the bumps in the road is far superior to the X5 and adds to the feeling of lightness. It is far more 'chuckable' then the X5 or what might be expected of a car weighing about 2,100 kg.
I'm not just trying to say how great the I-Pace is (although it is), but illustrate how the feel of a car is not necessarily or entirely governed by the weight.
Other controls like the clutch (if it has one), brakes and especially the accelerator also affect how heavy or light a car feels). It's pretty much the same for motorcycles. Not the steering so much as that is somewhat unvariable, but the 'weight' of the twistgrip/throttle affects how quick a bike feels. A heavy return spring on the throttle makes a bike seem slower than if the spring is lighter. Over the years and with many bikes I have unwound the spring slightly to make a lighter throttle. Not to make the bike feel faster, just for comfort and better control at low speed, but it undoubtedly does make the bike feel faster.
Since someone brought up Lotus (Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
), I will add that I have also driven the Eletre which is heavier than the I-Pace. Does it feel a heavy car? No. Big? Yes, because it is, but again, the 'feel' is of a much lighter car than it is. To be fair, now owned by Geely, I think we'll see a very different Lotus from how it has been in the past. Yes they will be heavier, but regulations will enforce that anyway, whatever the drivetrain. I am confident though that they will still be great fun to drive (and more reliable).
I also have a TVR Griffith with manual gearbox, manual steering and about half the weight of the I-Pace. Guess which feels heavier to drive.
I now have a Jaguar I-Pace, replacing a BMW X5. They are very similar sized cars, with the I-Pace being about 100 kg heavier. That's about 5% so not going to be outstandingly obvious, but which one feels a LOT lighter to drive? The heavier I-Pace.
The older X5s are known to have less steering assistance than later ones. A decision made by BMW at the time. It's not a problem at all, but the X5 is noticeably heavier steering than other similar and/or later cars. The I-Pace however has much lighter steering, which I prefer, although there are many who will say they want it heavier (hence BMW's decision). Personal opinions aside, the I-Pace 'feels' a much lighter car to drive. It's not just the steering though. The way it tracks through corners and rides the bumps in the road is far superior to the X5 and adds to the feeling of lightness. It is far more 'chuckable' then the X5 or what might be expected of a car weighing about 2,100 kg.
I'm not just trying to say how great the I-Pace is (although it is
), but illustrate how the feel of a car is not necessarily or entirely governed by the weight.Other controls like the clutch (if it has one), brakes and especially the accelerator also affect how heavy or light a car feels). It's pretty much the same for motorcycles. Not the steering so much as that is somewhat unvariable, but the 'weight' of the twistgrip/throttle affects how quick a bike feels. A heavy return spring on the throttle makes a bike seem slower than if the spring is lighter. Over the years and with many bikes I have unwound the spring slightly to make a lighter throttle. Not to make the bike feel faster, just for comfort and better control at low speed, but it undoubtedly does make the bike feel faster.
Since someone brought up Lotus (Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
), I will add that I have also driven the Eletre which is heavier than the I-Pace. Does it feel a heavy car? No. Big? Yes, because it is, but again, the 'feel' is of a much lighter car than it is. To be fair, now owned by Geely, I think we'll see a very different Lotus from how it has been in the past. Yes they will be heavier, but regulations will enforce that anyway, whatever the drivetrain. I am confident though that they will still be great fun to drive (and more reliable).I also have a TVR Griffith with manual gearbox, manual steering and about half the weight of the I-Pace. Guess which feels heavier to drive.
Last edited by UKenGB; 08-01-2024 at 05:33 AM.
08-01-2024, 09:35 AM
#29
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Now I'm in the midst of trying to figure out how to get a Macan or Panamera PDK into my S4 (only slightly kidding, but I love the idea and apart from a whole bunch of work and fabrication, does not seem crazy impossible), to see about marrying that brute of a V8 with the clean shifting through gears that the PDK provides. Magic!
Can you imagine driving a 928 with a crisp-shifting 8-speed transmission? It would become a 'modern' car all over again by removing its achilles heel.
Last edited by SwayBar; 08-01-2024 at 09:37 AM.
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08-01-2024, 08:51 PM
#30
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I joined the Porsche world in 2013 by getting a 987.2 Cayman S - the ".2" part was so I could get the new PDK that was introduced in 2009. Magical! The desire to get my hands dirty with a vintage Porsche for a reasonable budget led me to my S4 Auto. Of course, I couldn't help but wonder what a 928 PDK would be like, and if someday there'd be a conversion kit.
Ten years later, and there are more 928 EV's than 928 PDK's. Go, Stuart!
I have some clue about why: not only would such a conversion involve serious mechanical challenges, but a PDK drivetrain is a fully computerized drivetrain. I've learned all about this sort of thing while converting a vintage Jaguar to electric, for which the mechanical aspects were relatively trivial. It may only be feasible by bolting in an entire double-clutch drivetrain from a donor car with a suitable front engine / rear drive configuration - the Stuart Method.
Ten years later, and there are more 928 EV's than 928 PDK's. Go, Stuart!
I have some clue about why: not only would such a conversion involve serious mechanical challenges, but a PDK drivetrain is a fully computerized drivetrain. I've learned all about this sort of thing while converting a vintage Jaguar to electric, for which the mechanical aspects were relatively trivial. It may only be feasible by bolting in an entire double-clutch drivetrain from a donor car with a suitable front engine / rear drive configuration - the Stuart Method.